1 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:05,250 [Music] 2 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:06,930 [Laughter] 3 00:00:13,210 --> 00:00:21,790 [Music] 4 00:00:25,849 --> 00:00:24,349 welcome back to another episode of 5 00:00:27,950 --> 00:00:25,859 liminal frames 6 00:00:30,349 --> 00:00:27,960 I'm Nathan and I'm joined by my good 7 00:00:32,690 --> 00:00:30,359 friend and co-host Erin exo-academian 8 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:32,700 Happy New Year to all of our listeners 9 00:00:38,569 --> 00:00:36,300 welcome to 2023 Darren how's it going 10 00:00:40,310 --> 00:00:38,579 it's going well uh I have no doubt it's 11 00:00:43,069 --> 00:00:40,320 gonna be an exciting year in some ways 12 00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:43,079 you know I reflect and I think 2023 that 13 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:44,640 sounds so futuristic I can't believe 14 00:00:49,490 --> 00:00:47,100 that's actually when we are but it is 15 00:00:52,190 --> 00:00:49,500 indeed I'm gonna really date myself here 16 00:00:54,889 --> 00:00:52,200 because uh I remember the skit when when 17 00:00:58,670 --> 00:00:54,899 Conan O'Brien would do the in the year 18 00:01:01,670 --> 00:00:58,680 2000 and uh making that scene like it 19 00:01:03,709 --> 00:01:01,680 was super futuristic so oh my gosh we're 20 00:01:05,929 --> 00:01:03,719 23 years after that it's uh I got the 21 00:01:07,730 --> 00:01:05,939 gray hairs to prove it 22 00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:07,740 yeah you've got Prince partying Like 23 00:01:11,570 --> 00:01:09,720 It's 1999 and then we're like decades 24 00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:11,580 beyond that so what are you gonna say it 25 00:01:16,730 --> 00:01:15,000 is what it is it is what it is uh well 26 00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:16,740 here we are in liminal frames where time 27 00:01:22,370 --> 00:01:19,320 often has no real meaning uh so I'll 28 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:22,380 take consolation Solace and that and uh 29 00:01:26,630 --> 00:01:24,900 we thought it might be good uh listeners 30 00:01:29,149 --> 00:01:26,640 to start our year 31 00:01:31,429 --> 00:01:29,159 going back to some of the basics uh we 32 00:01:34,789 --> 00:01:31,439 spend a lot of time throwing out words 33 00:01:36,350 --> 00:01:34,799 and Concepts uh that are familiar to us 34 00:01:38,149 --> 00:01:36,360 we've talked about Darren and I talked 35 00:01:39,649 --> 00:01:38,159 about these things quite a bit uh not 36 00:01:41,810 --> 00:01:39,659 only on the show but in our personal 37 00:01:44,390 --> 00:01:41,820 conversation and you hear a lot of these 38 00:01:48,590 --> 00:01:44,400 terms tossed around within the community 39 00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:48,600 as well and I think it would be valuable 40 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:51,060 if we spent some time 41 00:01:55,850 --> 00:01:53,220 digging into them more deeply and 42 00:01:58,789 --> 00:01:55,860 packing what we mean we we say that we 43 00:02:01,190 --> 00:01:58,799 use those terms and then trying to as 44 00:02:05,209 --> 00:02:01,200 best we can kind of build up from the 45 00:02:08,150 --> 00:02:05,219 bottom layer and expand on the the way 46 00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:08,160 in which we look at the phenomena you 47 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:10,319 know how it kind of makes sense from a 48 00:02:13,850 --> 00:02:12,840 total perspective so Darren uh I don't 49 00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:13,860 know what you think about that approach 50 00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:15,720 but I'm excited about doing we've been 51 00:02:19,670 --> 00:02:17,040 talking about doing something like this 52 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:19,680 for a while it feels like a good start 53 00:02:24,530 --> 00:02:22,080 yeah I think um you know you you had 54 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:24,540 this idea and I I'm all for it because I 55 00:02:28,910 --> 00:02:25,920 think 56 00:02:30,949 --> 00:02:28,920 this has become pretty Central for us uh 57 00:02:34,130 --> 00:02:30,959 it's commonsensical to us but I think 58 00:02:35,089 --> 00:02:34,140 for a lot of people it's not and as we 59 00:02:37,250 --> 00:02:35,099 were talking about just a few minutes 60 00:02:39,170 --> 00:02:37,260 ago before we went on the air you know 61 00:02:41,089 --> 00:02:39,180 everything around them is telling them 62 00:02:44,690 --> 00:02:41,099 something else like our conventional 63 00:02:46,490 --> 00:02:44,700 Notions in society of what reality is 64 00:02:48,410 --> 00:02:46,500 um and how we try to force the UFO 65 00:02:50,930 --> 00:02:48,420 phenomenon and paranormality into that 66 00:02:53,270 --> 00:02:50,940 is telling people one thing so here we 67 00:02:55,729 --> 00:02:53,280 are suggesting Notions that are very 68 00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:55,739 very different so on the one hand 69 00:02:58,790 --> 00:02:57,120 um it might sound interesting to people 70 00:03:01,250 --> 00:02:58,800 but it goes against everything they're 71 00:03:04,250 --> 00:03:01,260 used to hearing and because we're 72 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:04,260 conditioned uh beings it also goes 73 00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:06,360 against the intuitions that have been 74 00:03:10,910 --> 00:03:08,640 developed over a lifetime so it's worth 75 00:03:12,229 --> 00:03:10,920 uh you know drilling down 76 00:03:15,649 --> 00:03:12,239 um and really spending some time 77 00:03:17,330 --> 00:03:15,659 building these Notions out one by one 78 00:03:19,490 --> 00:03:17,340 absolutely and we spend a lot of time 79 00:03:20,930 --> 00:03:19,500 talking about Frameworks uh you just 80 00:03:22,850 --> 00:03:20,940 touched on some of that 81 00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:22,860 Frameworks in which we look at the world 82 00:03:28,430 --> 00:03:25,440 we're born into them uh We've we've 83 00:03:30,170 --> 00:03:28,440 inherited them and there are multiple 84 00:03:33,589 --> 00:03:30,180 Frameworks of looking at the world that 85 00:03:37,309 --> 00:03:33,599 exists in human history and some of them 86 00:03:39,890 --> 00:03:37,319 have had their uh sort of day on stage 87 00:03:42,589 --> 00:03:39,900 and some of them have not had quite as 88 00:03:44,930 --> 00:03:42,599 big of a sort of a prominent role at 89 00:03:46,850 --> 00:03:44,940 least in in the Western World I would 90 00:03:48,649 --> 00:03:46,860 say they're remind everybody there are 91 00:03:51,110 --> 00:03:48,659 lots of different civilizations and lot 92 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:51,120 lots of different viewpoints and so 93 00:03:56,449 --> 00:03:53,340 we're in the west and in the west we're 94 00:03:58,309 --> 00:03:56,459 steeped in materialism this is the the 95 00:04:00,050 --> 00:03:58,319 air we breathe and it's been firmly 96 00:04:02,869 --> 00:04:00,060 established that that's the way to look 97 00:04:06,490 --> 00:04:02,879 at reality uh for a few hundred years 98 00:04:09,649 --> 00:04:06,500 now so it's it's had a lot of time to 99 00:04:11,929 --> 00:04:09,659 gain a strong footing and and to be 100 00:04:14,570 --> 00:04:11,939 reinforced via all of the different 101 00:04:16,189 --> 00:04:14,580 things that we depend on in our 102 00:04:19,129 --> 00:04:16,199 day-to-day life it just it's in the 103 00:04:21,710 --> 00:04:19,139 fabric of our of our experience but it's 104 00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:21,720 not the only way to look at reality uh 105 00:04:28,129 --> 00:04:23,340 there are other ways to to think about 106 00:04:30,530 --> 00:04:28,139 it Beyond just that material perspective 107 00:04:32,749 --> 00:04:30,540 um and so the main way that we you know 108 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:32,759 to talk about quite frequently is from 109 00:04:36,469 --> 00:04:34,620 the perspective perspective of 110 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:36,479 consciousness 111 00:04:41,570 --> 00:04:39,840 and the role that Consciousness plays in 112 00:04:44,090 --> 00:04:41,580 reality itself so I think we might want 113 00:04:46,670 --> 00:04:44,100 to start there we use the big c word a 114 00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:46,680 lot uh what what are we talking about 115 00:04:52,129 --> 00:04:49,440 when we use the word Consciousness what 116 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:52,139 what does it mean for you Darren 117 00:04:56,150 --> 00:04:54,180 well before I quickly jump into that let 118 00:04:57,050 --> 00:04:56,160 me just quickly also back up a step and 119 00:04:59,749 --> 00:04:57,060 say that 120 00:05:02,810 --> 00:04:59,759 I think part of the the bias and the 121 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:02,820 Prejudice the hubris that exists in our 122 00:05:07,850 --> 00:05:05,360 contemporary society around materialism 123 00:05:10,430 --> 00:05:07,860 uh is 124 00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:10,440 because it's been so transformatively 125 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:12,720 powerful right because 126 00:05:16,129 --> 00:05:14,820 um we like while you said there are 127 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:16,139 different civilizations around the world 128 00:05:21,350 --> 00:05:18,360 that see reality differently but we 129 00:05:22,969 --> 00:05:21,360 think ours is the best one because it's 130 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:22,979 been so transformative you know like 131 00:05:28,370 --> 00:05:25,080 tripling lifespans over the last 100 132 00:05:29,990 --> 00:05:28,380 years or so now 200 years 133 00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:30,000 um you know we're taking trips to the 134 00:05:35,330 --> 00:05:31,740 moon and Beyond you know we're we're 135 00:05:38,390 --> 00:05:35,340 planning uh trips to Mars and colonies 136 00:05:41,570 --> 00:05:38,400 on Mars and that kind of thing so when 137 00:05:44,270 --> 00:05:41,580 people see that they go well it's been 138 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:44,280 so powerful and so transformative 139 00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:46,560 and so efficacious doesn't that mean 140 00:05:51,890 --> 00:05:48,720 that everything about it is right right 141 00:05:53,330 --> 00:05:51,900 so the the sort of like a equals B and 142 00:05:54,710 --> 00:05:53,340 what we're saying is that's not true and 143 00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:54,720 as I've mentioned this many times on 144 00:05:58,969 --> 00:05:56,160 their show 145 00:06:01,010 --> 00:05:58,979 that um we've learned to model nature to 146 00:06:02,810 --> 00:06:01,020 a an amazing degree and that has allowed 147 00:06:05,210 --> 00:06:02,820 us to have predictive power that's 148 00:06:07,129 --> 00:06:05,220 allowed us to create technologies that 149 00:06:09,529 --> 00:06:07,139 have transformed many aspects of our 150 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:09,539 lives but that's again just modeling 151 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:11,160 nature it doesn't tell us what nature is 152 00:06:14,390 --> 00:06:12,840 I've said this so many times but I 153 00:06:16,249 --> 00:06:14,400 really want people to drill down on that 154 00:06:18,830 --> 00:06:16,259 because that's that's where this begins 155 00:06:20,930 --> 00:06:18,840 is what is the underlying fabric of 156 00:06:22,730 --> 00:06:20,940 reality you can know that something's 157 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:22,740 going to happen right you can see a cold 158 00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,620 front coming and realize you should put 159 00:06:29,450 --> 00:06:27,600 a jacket on that doesn't mean you 160 00:06:33,170 --> 00:06:29,460 necessarily understand 161 00:06:36,290 --> 00:06:33,180 every Elemental mechanical aspect behind 162 00:06:38,090 --> 00:06:36,300 what causes that ultimately right that's 163 00:06:40,249 --> 00:06:38,100 that's a big difference so that's one 164 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:40,259 thing we want to sort of stress here 165 00:06:44,450 --> 00:06:43,020 um but when we speak of consciousness 166 00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:44,460 and we can go back and forth in this 167 00:06:49,129 --> 00:06:46,800 because this I think we should take some 168 00:06:52,070 --> 00:06:49,139 time to sort of drill down on this but 169 00:06:54,890 --> 00:06:52,080 the first thing I would say is that 170 00:06:56,689 --> 00:06:54,900 for any one of us the one thing we're 171 00:07:00,370 --> 00:06:56,699 sure of is that we're having a conscious 172 00:07:02,629 --> 00:07:00,380 experience for me to ask that question 173 00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:02,639 presupposes that I'm having a conscious 174 00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:03,840 experience or I couldn't ask that 175 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:05,520 question in which I'm questioning my 176 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:07,500 conscious experience so it's kind of 177 00:07:11,870 --> 00:07:09,720 built in that it's the one thing we can 178 00:07:14,570 --> 00:07:11,880 be sure of that 179 00:07:15,950 --> 00:07:14,580 um none of this would be happening if it 180 00:07:18,050 --> 00:07:15,960 weren't for the fact that we were having 181 00:07:20,210 --> 00:07:18,060 an awareness around some sort of 182 00:07:24,409 --> 00:07:20,220 experience something we're conscious of 183 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:26,450 in that transformative power with 184 00:07:32,029 --> 00:07:28,680 technology that we talked about along 185 00:07:35,390 --> 00:07:32,039 that process came this assumption 186 00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:35,400 that there's a material world right and 187 00:07:40,189 --> 00:07:38,160 that this material world is outside of 188 00:07:41,629 --> 00:07:40,199 our Consciousness right and even goes 189 00:07:44,210 --> 00:07:41,639 further and says 190 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:44,220 our Consciousness is a product of that 191 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:47,280 material world and therefore has no 192 00:07:53,150 --> 00:07:50,400 sustaining power has no enduring uh 193 00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:53,160 capacity beyond the material you know 194 00:07:57,290 --> 00:07:55,440 construction of it so when our bodies 195 00:08:01,309 --> 00:07:57,300 dissolve there's nothing left to us is 196 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:01,319 the idea in materialism but what people 197 00:08:05,749 --> 00:08:03,120 need to realize and this is the first 198 00:08:08,629 --> 00:08:05,759 step in understanding why 199 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:08,639 um materialism is really a leap in logic 200 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:11,460 that's not supported is that when we 201 00:08:17,150 --> 00:08:13,380 posit the notion of a material world 202 00:08:19,070 --> 00:08:17,160 outside of Consciousness that is an 203 00:08:20,689 --> 00:08:19,080 untestable hypothesis at that point 204 00:08:22,129 --> 00:08:20,699 because again as we've talked about 205 00:08:24,409 --> 00:08:22,139 before 206 00:08:26,230 --> 00:08:24,419 just because I knock on a desk and it 207 00:08:29,089 --> 00:08:26,240 makes a sound and I can feel it 208 00:08:31,670 --> 00:08:29,099 supposedly you know on my Knuckles 209 00:08:33,709 --> 00:08:31,680 doesn't mean it actually exists anymore 210 00:08:35,149 --> 00:08:33,719 than if I were to do that in a dream 211 00:08:36,829 --> 00:08:35,159 last night 212 00:08:38,990 --> 00:08:36,839 you would think I was silly if I said to 213 00:08:40,190 --> 00:08:39,000 you so I know this desk existed 214 00:08:42,529 --> 00:08:40,200 somewhere 215 00:08:44,690 --> 00:08:42,539 did it or was it just a manifestation of 216 00:08:47,810 --> 00:08:44,700 Consciousness right it was the way that 217 00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:47,820 my Dreamscape kind of came together and 218 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:49,200 there's consistency within that 219 00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:50,880 Dreamscape right you'd knock on out what 220 00:08:54,350 --> 00:08:52,860 looks like a desk and it gives you the 221 00:08:56,810 --> 00:08:54,360 feedback telling you it's a desk right 222 00:08:58,009 --> 00:08:56,820 so it's it's internally consistent but 223 00:08:59,930 --> 00:08:58,019 really when you think about it our 224 00:09:02,509 --> 00:08:59,940 waking experience right now if I knock 225 00:09:04,730 --> 00:09:02,519 my Knuckles on this desk I have no way 226 00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:04,740 of knowing that's any more quote unquote 227 00:09:08,990 --> 00:09:06,720 real than the dream I had last night 228 00:09:11,930 --> 00:09:09,000 when I was knocking on a desk 229 00:09:13,310 --> 00:09:11,940 so that's the first thing to to say here 230 00:09:15,470 --> 00:09:13,320 and then I'll toss it back to you is 231 00:09:17,389 --> 00:09:15,480 that the one thing we're sure of is that 232 00:09:19,430 --> 00:09:17,399 we're having conscious experience 233 00:09:23,449 --> 00:09:19,440 the notion of a material world outside 234 00:09:26,990 --> 00:09:23,459 of that is not only unproven but really 235 00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:27,000 untestable so you realize 236 00:09:31,970 --> 00:09:29,580 that really you can have everything we 237 00:09:33,949 --> 00:09:31,980 have and and it only be about 238 00:09:37,130 --> 00:09:33,959 Consciousness that all of these 239 00:09:38,810 --> 00:09:37,140 different things desks Nathan Darren the 240 00:09:40,970 --> 00:09:38,820 walls the computers we're talking 241 00:09:43,790 --> 00:09:40,980 through everything is actually just 242 00:09:46,910 --> 00:09:43,800 excitation of Consciousness right that's 243 00:09:48,769 --> 00:09:46,920 all it ultimately is and just because it 244 00:09:50,449 --> 00:09:48,779 takes different forms in different times 245 00:09:52,670 --> 00:09:50,459 doesn't mean that those are actually 246 00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:52,680 substantive ultimately they are 247 00:09:57,710 --> 00:09:55,440 temporary forms just like you have 248 00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:57,720 temporary forms and a dream but then 249 00:10:01,550 --> 00:10:00,000 when you wake up they're gone right so 250 00:10:04,070 --> 00:10:01,560 that's the notion with Consciousness 251 00:10:05,690 --> 00:10:04,080 being primary being fundamental is that 252 00:10:08,509 --> 00:10:05,700 anything that looks like a physical 253 00:10:10,269 --> 00:10:08,519 world ultimately is just an excitation 254 00:10:13,130 --> 00:10:10,279 of Consciousness 255 00:10:16,430 --> 00:10:13,140 yeah very well said I I also really like 256 00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:16,440 the description that uh Berton uses the 257 00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:19,440 uh the notion of the dashboard so I 258 00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:20,880 think that that's really helpful helped 259 00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:22,800 me understand this concept very well so 260 00:10:27,530 --> 00:10:25,440 just to reiterate what that is uh he 261 00:10:30,050 --> 00:10:27,540 uses this notion that a pilot an 262 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:30,060 airplane pilot can fly the airplane by 263 00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:31,680 just looking at the instrument panel 264 00:10:36,769 --> 00:10:34,620 don't have to have the windows to see 265 00:10:38,750 --> 00:10:36,779 outside of the airplane to be able to 266 00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:38,760 fly that airplane successfully you can 267 00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,920 literally just fly it by looking at 268 00:10:46,009 --> 00:10:42,959 what's happening on the dashboard in 269 00:10:48,530 --> 00:10:46,019 front of you and he's saying that that's 270 00:10:52,130 --> 00:10:48,540 exactly what our experience of the world 271 00:10:54,829 --> 00:10:52,140 is is just a dashboard of dials and 272 00:10:57,050 --> 00:10:54,839 levers it's a representation of 273 00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:57,060 something else which is happening 274 00:11:02,990 --> 00:10:59,760 outside of that perceptive experience 275 00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:03,000 that we don't have a direct experience 276 00:11:08,569 --> 00:11:06,240 of we can do a great deal we can fly 277 00:11:11,569 --> 00:11:08,579 that airplane we can navigate Our Lives 278 00:11:14,509 --> 00:11:11,579 by looking at that dashboard but we can 279 00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:14,519 also confuse the dashboard for reality 280 00:11:19,069 --> 00:11:16,800 itself and I like that concept not only 281 00:11:22,670 --> 00:11:19,079 is it just for me easy just to kind of 282 00:11:25,130 --> 00:11:22,680 grab onto but also I feel that it it 283 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:25,140 connects very well with what we know 284 00:11:28,569 --> 00:11:27,360 about our own you know sort of of 285 00:11:31,009 --> 00:11:28,579 cognitive 286 00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:31,019 experience or our perceptual experience 287 00:11:39,170 --> 00:11:34,140 we know that what what we think of as 288 00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:39,180 reality is already reduced by uh it's 289 00:11:43,250 --> 00:11:40,620 already gone through a series of 290 00:11:46,370 --> 00:11:43,260 reductions by the time it's Arisen in 291 00:11:49,310 --> 00:11:46,380 our conscious awareness so uh you know 292 00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:49,320 color and light and and texture and 293 00:11:52,970 --> 00:11:51,000 taste and all of these sound all of 294 00:11:56,569 --> 00:11:52,980 these things are things that are 295 00:12:00,410 --> 00:11:56,579 happening uh in in a spectrum that we 296 00:12:02,690 --> 00:12:00,420 only get a very narrow experience of 297 00:12:06,730 --> 00:12:02,700 um and so you know these Concepts to me 298 00:12:09,290 --> 00:12:06,740 really blend very nicely to to together 299 00:12:11,690 --> 00:12:09,300 and and I would argue too that or at 300 00:12:13,930 --> 00:12:11,700 least point out that um 301 00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:13,940 even if we have all this testable 302 00:12:19,009 --> 00:12:16,680 science we can say hey I ran this 303 00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:19,019 experiment and it happened in a vacuum 304 00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:20,640 tube and we you know we pull all this 305 00:12:24,530 --> 00:12:22,680 data out of it and it showed that there 306 00:12:26,630 --> 00:12:24,540 are these things that are there well the 307 00:12:28,370 --> 00:12:26,640 evaluation of any of that content is 308 00:12:31,370 --> 00:12:28,380 still happening in human awareness 309 00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:31,380 happening in human perception so it you 310 00:12:36,410 --> 00:12:32,700 cannot as you said you cannot 311 00:12:38,630 --> 00:12:36,420 disentangle our conscious awareness from 312 00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:38,640 everything that we're observing like 313 00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:42,000 there's no independent uh objective uh 314 00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:44,100 thing that is happening outside of our 315 00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:46,440 awareness and our perception 316 00:12:50,990 --> 00:12:49,260 right and I I'm glad you brought up the 317 00:12:53,990 --> 00:12:51,000 um the metaphor of the dashboard of 318 00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:54,000 dials because uh just to reiterate that 319 00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:55,200 a bit again 320 00:12:58,490 --> 00:12:56,519 um 321 00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,500 when Bernardo talks about that he'll 322 00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:00,720 talk about our everyday intuitions and 323 00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:04,079 how we are fooled by them right so his 324 00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:06,360 point is that not only 325 00:13:10,370 --> 00:13:08,700 can you fly the plane while you're also 326 00:13:12,710 --> 00:13:10,380 looking out the window but technically 327 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,720 if it's extremely stormy and basically a 328 00:13:17,690 --> 00:13:14,480 blackout outside you can't see anything 329 00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:17,700 you can take off fly across the country 330 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:19,560 or across the world and land the plane 331 00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,200 without ever actually seeing what's 332 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:24,480 actually going on outside because you 333 00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:26,600 trust that those dials are giving you 334 00:13:30,829 --> 00:13:28,800 accurate information about what's 335 00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:30,839 actually going on in reality 336 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:33,480 now the key there is though that of 337 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:34,320 course 338 00:13:39,050 --> 00:13:37,500 the outside weather and air pressure and 339 00:13:41,389 --> 00:13:39,060 those kind of things and you know how 340 00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:41,399 high you are off the ground altitude 341 00:13:46,670 --> 00:13:44,459 none of that actually is perfectly 342 00:13:49,310 --> 00:13:46,680 represented one to one with these dials 343 00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:49,320 on the dashboard they somehow reference 344 00:13:53,150 --> 00:13:51,300 something right they give you the 345 00:13:55,310 --> 00:13:53,160 information you need to get from A to B 346 00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,320 his point there and this fits in with 347 00:14:00,050 --> 00:13:57,839 Donald Hoffman's work right around 348 00:14:01,910 --> 00:14:00,060 um Evolution and what it it has done 349 00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:01,920 that basically the process of evolution 350 00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:04,620 has given us that dashboard of dials 351 00:14:09,170 --> 00:14:07,200 right and it does in some way reference 352 00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:09,180 some reality like as you said we never 353 00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:12,480 directly access or directly perceive 354 00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:15,480 right but because it allows us to get 355 00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:16,740 through the world and the same way that 356 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:18,300 those dashboard of dials allow you to 357 00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:21,720 fly the plane we've assumed that that is 358 00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:23,639 reality that what we perceive through 359 00:14:29,389 --> 00:14:26,880 our six senses is giving us real 360 00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:29,399 information about the world out there 361 00:14:34,129 --> 00:14:31,380 and a Hoffman's point and it fits very 362 00:14:36,769 --> 00:14:34,139 much with bernardo's point is that um 363 00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:36,779 that's just not true that 364 00:14:41,569 --> 00:14:39,120 um not only so the conventional wisdom 365 00:14:43,310 --> 00:14:41,579 is that okay sure like you said there's 366 00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,320 some like parts of the spectrum that 367 00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,880 we're not perceiving right 368 00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:46,320 um the ultraviolet Spectrum we can 369 00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:48,180 perceive directly things like that but 370 00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:49,620 the the parts that we are perceiving at 371 00:14:53,569 --> 00:14:51,000 least that's part of the real thing 372 00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:53,579 right and bernardo's point and Donald 373 00:14:58,730 --> 00:14:56,000 Hoffman has said there's you know 374 00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:58,740 mathematical theorems that prove this 375 00:15:03,949 --> 00:15:01,680 that actually the the amount of 376 00:15:06,889 --> 00:15:03,959 correlation between actual reality and 377 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:06,899 what we perceive as reality is precisely 378 00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,260 zero in other words what we perceive is 379 00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:12,959 nothing like the real reality 380 00:15:17,389 --> 00:15:15,120 um and you can run game theory to to 381 00:15:18,769 --> 00:15:17,399 come up to those conclusions 382 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:18,779 um where again as we've talked about 383 00:15:23,689 --> 00:15:20,820 before human beings that are around 384 00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:23,699 today uh have ancestors who learn 385 00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:25,620 shortcuts who developed perceptual 386 00:15:29,090 --> 00:15:27,540 shortcuts that allowed them to stay 387 00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:29,100 alive and that's all it is the same way 388 00:15:32,810 --> 00:15:30,360 that if you're playing a video game 389 00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:32,820 you're not actually dealing with the 390 00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:35,639 transistors the voltages the zeros and 391 00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:38,100 ones and the computer software you're 392 00:15:42,530 --> 00:15:40,800 playing with avatars and icons right 393 00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:42,540 that move from level to level screen to 394 00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,820 screen that has nothing to do with the 395 00:15:49,970 --> 00:15:47,279 underlying reality of the computer and 396 00:15:52,670 --> 00:15:49,980 the software but it allows you to still 397 00:15:54,829 --> 00:15:52,680 navigate in a way that changes that so 398 00:15:57,769 --> 00:15:54,839 that's really what we are perceiving in 399 00:15:59,870 --> 00:15:57,779 reality so it really is important to hit 400 00:16:02,210 --> 00:15:59,880 home but it's not just about us 401 00:16:04,129 --> 00:16:02,220 perceiving a portion a narrow sort of 402 00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,139 Band of reality but actually what we've 403 00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:05,519 developed is a completely different 404 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:08,100 interface that is not directly related 405 00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:10,740 to reality but only allows us to 406 00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:13,019 interface with that reality in a way we 407 00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,880 don't see how it's happening it just 408 00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,079 works because we've learned the 409 00:16:21,710 --> 00:16:18,240 shortcuts 410 00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:21,720 okay so then what uh I think that's a 411 00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:23,459 really good explanation but what can we 412 00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:24,839 then say 413 00:16:30,829 --> 00:16:28,500 uh I guess with conviction about what 414 00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:30,839 reality actually is I mean I think we 415 00:16:35,449 --> 00:16:33,480 can at least so we can root say that as 416 00:16:37,790 --> 00:16:35,459 you said earlier it's uh it's the 417 00:16:40,850 --> 00:16:37,800 excitation of Consciousness but but if 418 00:16:44,689 --> 00:16:40,860 our if our correlation is kind of murky 419 00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,699 fuzzy not particularly uh High Fidelity 420 00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:47,040 you know how can we make 421 00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:50,040 any sort of uh statements about what 422 00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:53,820 reality might be like or how it might 423 00:16:58,009 --> 00:16:56,399 behave uh how do we get there from from 424 00:17:01,910 --> 00:16:58,019 here 425 00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:01,920 is that 426 00:17:06,890 --> 00:17:04,020 um when you think about a dream you 427 00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,900 think about a dreamer right and so if 428 00:17:09,289 --> 00:17:08,400 we're saying that 429 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:09,299 um 430 00:17:12,110 --> 00:17:11,220 when we talk about Consciousness what 431 00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:12,120 we're basically and we're talking about 432 00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,179 conscious experience and and mentation 433 00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:17,760 processes right what we're basically 434 00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,500 saying is that 435 00:17:23,689 --> 00:17:21,120 uh the notion with something like 436 00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:23,699 analytic idealism which is bernardo's 437 00:17:27,530 --> 00:17:25,079 model 438 00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:27,540 um and we can talk tonight about how 439 00:17:31,730 --> 00:17:29,160 that's sort of the Western Way of 440 00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:31,740 approaching this right idealism but then 441 00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:34,200 it fits very much with Eastern vedantic 442 00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,760 non-duality and kind of things we can 443 00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:37,679 talk about how those connect 444 00:17:42,049 --> 00:17:40,440 but the notion is that you have 445 00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:42,059 um you might want to call it God you 446 00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:43,020 might want to call it the cosmic 447 00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:44,520 intelligence whatever feels better to 448 00:17:49,370 --> 00:17:47,760 you but some sort of 449 00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:49,380 conscious 450 00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:51,720 intelligence right 451 00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:55,679 presupposes everything and that all of 452 00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,360 the 453 00:18:03,409 --> 00:17:59,520 experience that that happened everything 454 00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:03,419 that manifests is basically a dream or a 455 00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:06,960 thought or a mindscape created by this 456 00:18:13,549 --> 00:18:10,799 original intelligence and so 457 00:18:15,529 --> 00:18:13,559 everything is basically mentation so so 458 00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,539 when I I mean it quite literally when I 459 00:18:19,070 --> 00:18:17,760 say that you and I talking right now is 460 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:19,080 no different than the dream I had last 461 00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,640 night I mean that very very literally 462 00:18:25,130 --> 00:18:23,039 actually that it's fundamentally the 463 00:18:27,169 --> 00:18:25,140 same process that 464 00:18:29,570 --> 00:18:27,179 um again embedded within it as 465 00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,580 characters within the dream we 466 00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:31,500 experience it as his physical thing 467 00:18:36,770 --> 00:18:33,780 right but ultimately it's no different 468 00:18:39,549 --> 00:18:36,780 than the dream so what we can say is 469 00:18:42,169 --> 00:18:39,559 that we have all of the 470 00:18:44,090 --> 00:18:42,179 phenomological aspects of everything 471 00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,100 around us whether it's in a dream or in 472 00:18:50,510 --> 00:18:47,280 the waking State now is ultimately just 473 00:18:52,850 --> 00:18:50,520 fields of mentation of that original 474 00:18:56,570 --> 00:18:52,860 consciousness 475 00:18:58,850 --> 00:18:56,580 having thoughts having dreams and 476 00:19:01,250 --> 00:18:58,860 But ultimately those are inseparable 477 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:01,260 that this is just the activity of the 478 00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:03,900 dreamer right so that's what we can say 479 00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:05,640 about this it can take different forms 480 00:19:08,690 --> 00:19:07,320 you can have a dream where you're in 481 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:08,700 Hawaii one time the next thing you know 482 00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:10,260 you're in this really kind of weird Twin 483 00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:11,520 Peaks kind of Zone you're not sure 484 00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:12,900 what's going on 485 00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:13,559 um 486 00:19:17,570 --> 00:19:15,419 which one is real which one's not that's 487 00:19:19,610 --> 00:19:17,580 kind of an incoherent question within 488 00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:19,620 that kind of framework right that these 489 00:19:24,770 --> 00:19:22,200 are just mentation processes dreams that 490 00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:24,780 arise which ultimately are just 491 00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:27,600 excitations of consciousness 492 00:19:34,010 --> 00:19:31,039 which kind of presupposes this kind of 493 00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,020 intelligence in which this Consciousness 494 00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:36,720 is seated right so the in and I think 495 00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:37,860 it's really important to point out here 496 00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:39,480 this is why this is actually more 497 00:19:43,370 --> 00:19:41,160 parsimonious than the material model 498 00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:43,380 because it's saying that 499 00:19:47,510 --> 00:19:45,539 all you have is consciousness and 500 00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:47,520 excitation of Consciousness which 501 00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:49,860 ultimately is the same thing right so to 502 00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:52,140 use another really powerful metaphor 503 00:19:55,370 --> 00:19:53,520 I know we have this notion of a 504 00:19:58,370 --> 00:19:55,380 Whirlpool right so you can have a 505 00:20:00,350 --> 00:19:58,380 whirlpool in a river and 506 00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:00,360 for all intents and purposes it really 507 00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:02,160 seems like it's an individual thing 508 00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:04,200 right it's got a certain structure to it 509 00:20:09,049 --> 00:20:07,080 that's consistent uh it could even you 510 00:20:10,850 --> 00:20:09,059 could say have its own identity you know 511 00:20:12,650 --> 00:20:10,860 I'm always this water that goes around 512 00:20:15,049 --> 00:20:12,660 in the circle here and I have a sense of 513 00:20:17,029 --> 00:20:15,059 being separate and individual when we 514 00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,039 know in the big picture ultimately all 515 00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:19,679 that is is a particular excitation of 516 00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:21,960 water it's really no different than the 517 00:20:26,270 --> 00:20:24,299 river when you sort of zoom out you go 518 00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:26,280 the whirlpool and the river are one 519 00:20:29,630 --> 00:20:27,660 thing right 520 00:20:31,850 --> 00:20:29,640 um and I think if we 521 00:20:33,669 --> 00:20:31,860 even one thing that science has helped 522 00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:33,679 us to do in the of our ability to 523 00:20:37,789 --> 00:20:35,940 macroscopically and microscopically zoom 524 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:37,799 in and out of reality or what we think 525 00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,320 of as reality we start recognizing that 526 00:20:44,029 --> 00:20:42,480 these distinctions we make between what 527 00:20:46,810 --> 00:20:44,039 is a tree versus what is the earth 528 00:20:49,310 --> 00:20:46,820 versus what is the air you know like or 529 00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:49,320 how am I different than the bacteria in 530 00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,059 my gut we start recognizing this some of 531 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:53,760 these are just arbitrary lines we draw 532 00:20:58,669 --> 00:20:56,820 that really have no foundational reality 533 00:21:01,610 --> 00:20:58,679 to them right it's just a way we choose 534 00:21:03,529 --> 00:21:01,620 to perceive things conveniently so 535 00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:03,539 that's something to think about when we 536 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:05,220 think about you know Consciousness being 537 00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:10,730 um I like the idea too about this uh 538 00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:13,980 concept of of intelligence because uh 539 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:16,440 our conscious experience isn't an 540 00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:19,440 experience of of disorder and total 541 00:21:26,150 --> 00:21:24,059 chaos there is form structure order uh 542 00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,160 delineation like 543 00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:28,559 otherwise we wouldn't be able to have 544 00:21:33,770 --> 00:21:30,900 anything that we could articulate at all 545 00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:33,780 it would be a just a kind of an 546 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:36,000 experiential soup uh where there isn't 547 00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:37,440 any sort of thing that we could conclude 548 00:21:44,510 --> 00:21:40,559 or uh or predict or anything of that 549 00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:44,520 nature so because we have uh these 550 00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,520 distinct experiences of different forms 551 00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:50,159 and objects like there is an underlying 552 00:21:56,750 --> 00:21:54,000 structure to conscious experience uh it 553 00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:56,760 may not be a hundred percent correlative 554 00:22:02,570 --> 00:21:59,760 it may not be that there literally is a 555 00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:02,580 table as you said earlier 556 00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:05,280 um but there is something structured 557 00:22:10,370 --> 00:22:08,159 like that in you know taking place in 558 00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:10,380 conscious awareness 559 00:22:15,529 --> 00:22:13,559 um you know so I guess what I want to go 560 00:22:17,149 --> 00:22:15,539 from here is uh because this comes up 561 00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:17,159 quite often 562 00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:19,380 for folks who I think have some 563 00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:22,320 critiques of this perspective is that uh 564 00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,059 you know they often kind of say so so 565 00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,919 are you saying that you know if I just 566 00:22:28,909 --> 00:22:27,120 want to think about the world 567 00:22:30,890 --> 00:22:28,919 differently that I can literally just 568 00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:30,900 you know sort of change however it 569 00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:33,720 happens to be like if I just want to uh 570 00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:36,900 you know turn this uh you know desk into 571 00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:38,700 a yacht can I just think that it's a 572 00:22:42,529 --> 00:22:40,320 yacht and then I can go sailing I mean 573 00:22:44,810 --> 00:22:42,539 how does how does it work is it why 574 00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:44,820 doesn't it work like that 575 00:22:48,409 --> 00:22:46,620 well let's just try it we're going to go 576 00:22:50,690 --> 00:22:48,419 ahead right now Nathan try to turn that 577 00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:50,700 that's good for yacht concentrating so 578 00:22:53,390 --> 00:22:51,780 hard yes 579 00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:53,400 I'm not seeing the odd I guess it didn't 580 00:22:57,890 --> 00:22:56,760 work right I mean that that's that's a 581 00:22:59,810 --> 00:22:57,900 good question and I think you're right 582 00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:59,820 that that's one of the first things 583 00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:02,280 people hear when they 584 00:23:05,930 --> 00:23:04,140 first hear about this model right they 585 00:23:08,029 --> 00:23:05,940 say oh so you're saying this is sort of 586 00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:08,039 Mind Over Matter to the nth degree that 587 00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:10,380 you know if I decide I want my you know 588 00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:11,940 room to be a different color I just need 589 00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:13,559 to perceive it that way and then it will 590 00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:14,400 be 591 00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,559 and we're saying no that's not what 592 00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:18,720 we're saying so this is where idealism 593 00:23:23,630 --> 00:23:20,760 is different than solipsism right so in 594 00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:23,640 solipsism basically everything is just 595 00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:25,260 your Consciousness your own individual 596 00:23:29,450 --> 00:23:26,880 Consciousness you you are all that 597 00:23:32,090 --> 00:23:29,460 really is and in that sense you would 598 00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:32,100 have 100 control over everything that 599 00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:34,380 manifests right but what we're saying 600 00:23:38,990 --> 00:23:37,020 here is that 601 00:23:42,409 --> 00:23:39,000 we talked about that initial Cosmic 602 00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:42,419 intelligence right that um gave birth to 603 00:23:47,169 --> 00:23:45,780 or gave thought to 604 00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,179 um everything that now 605 00:23:50,570 --> 00:23:48,960 phenomenologically exists right 606 00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:50,580 including us 607 00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:53,940 so what we are is like characters in 608 00:23:58,730 --> 00:23:56,640 that mindscape right so 609 00:24:02,570 --> 00:23:58,740 the intelligence that populated this 610 00:24:04,730 --> 00:24:02,580 mindscape this dream space is that is 611 00:24:06,649 --> 00:24:04,740 some iteration of a cosmic intelligence 612 00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:06,659 right we can get to in a little while 613 00:24:11,470 --> 00:24:09,059 about how we can think about these as 614 00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,480 disassociated Alters like different 615 00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:14,159 personas in Consciousness that like that 616 00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,620 Whirlpool for a period of time take on 617 00:24:21,289 --> 00:24:19,440 the semblance of individuality right and 618 00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:21,299 personhood right think about the the 619 00:24:26,330 --> 00:24:23,640 whirlpool again 620 00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:26,340 um but but we are just whirlpools right 621 00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:28,740 in the river which is NSA maybe like in 622 00:24:34,610 --> 00:24:30,720 a jungle zone or something 623 00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:34,620 so all we in this stream have access to 624 00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,020 in terms of changing is maybe some of 625 00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:38,880 what's going on within the whirlpool but 626 00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:41,940 because the entire Dreamscape exists in 627 00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:44,460 the mind mind at large is what Bernardo 628 00:24:49,490 --> 00:24:47,220 Castro would call it right the the mind 629 00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:49,500 of the cosmic intelligence 630 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:53,640 um that's what seeds this streamscape so 631 00:24:58,610 --> 00:24:56,520 we do have some ability to change some 632 00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,620 things and I think the more we develop 633 00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:00,480 our consciousness 634 00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:03,240 the more we do have the an ability to 635 00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,679 change that actually and that's one of 636 00:25:07,970 --> 00:25:06,600 the interesting things with some of 637 00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:07,980 these others these non-human 638 00:25:12,230 --> 00:25:09,780 intelligences is they've developed a 639 00:25:14,029 --> 00:25:12,240 much greater skill should be able to 640 00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:14,039 basically have a mind over matter kind 641 00:25:18,409 --> 00:25:16,620 of a situation where 642 00:25:20,330 --> 00:25:18,419 you know it's not that they need to come 643 00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:20,340 through the front door they can just 644 00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:23,760 like make the entire wall of your house 645 00:25:28,370 --> 00:25:26,220 seemingly dematerialize right even when 646 00:25:30,769 --> 00:25:28,380 we hear that term right you hear the the 647 00:25:33,049 --> 00:25:30,779 physicalist kind of um 648 00:25:34,669 --> 00:25:33,059 hubris there right the assumption that 649 00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,679 that is something that has to 650 00:25:38,870 --> 00:25:36,960 dematerialize for you to come in and 651 00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,880 we're saying no it's a thought form and 652 00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:40,320 so they basically can deal in the level 653 00:25:43,789 --> 00:25:42,120 of the thought form they don't want that 654 00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:43,799 wall to be there it's not there it's 655 00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:45,360 that simple so 656 00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,880 so on the one hand we can develop more 657 00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:49,919 ability to 658 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:51,000 um 659 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:54,120 change the the environment around us 660 00:25:58,130 --> 00:25:55,980 but that takes some skill and we have to 661 00:25:59,630 --> 00:25:58,140 remember that ultimately though there's 662 00:26:01,730 --> 00:25:59,640 these different interacting 663 00:26:03,529 --> 00:26:01,740 consciousnesses who have different 664 00:26:06,169 --> 00:26:03,539 levels of ability to change these things 665 00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:06,179 but ultimately the original seating of 666 00:26:10,430 --> 00:26:09,000 this Dreamscape was by some outer 667 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,440 intelligence might not be the original 668 00:26:14,090 --> 00:26:12,000 one because there can be multiple 669 00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:14,100 iterations which we can talk about that 670 00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:15,480 right and how that works in terms of 671 00:26:19,370 --> 00:26:17,640 Dimensions other things I've talked 672 00:26:20,990 --> 00:26:19,380 about but that gives you some idea of 673 00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:21,000 the difference between idealism and 674 00:26:26,330 --> 00:26:23,760 solipsism in idealism we are like 675 00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,340 characters within mind at large and mind 676 00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,320 at large is what ultimately an 677 00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:30,779 originally populates this Dreamscape of 678 00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:32,340 which we actually are just again 679 00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:34,860 excitations of that Consciousness the 680 00:26:37,870 --> 00:26:36,240 same way that a Whirlpool is an 681 00:26:39,890 --> 00:26:37,880 excitation of the river 682 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,900 and what you've touched on a couple of 683 00:26:43,930 --> 00:26:41,520 things that I I definitely wanted to get 684 00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:43,940 into and that you entered that we should 685 00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:47,100 so one is what is the notion of the core 686 00:26:51,230 --> 00:26:49,200 conscious intelligence and you know we 687 00:26:53,870 --> 00:26:51,240 can use the word God and that I know 688 00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:53,880 that word has a lot of baggage but you 689 00:26:58,250 --> 00:26:56,760 know the the Mind At Large capital M 690 00:27:01,789 --> 00:26:58,260 right 691 00:27:04,610 --> 00:27:01,799 um you know so why would mind at large 692 00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:04,620 in its resting state if I can use that 693 00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:07,980 phrase like why would it disassociate at 694 00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:12,020 all why not just stay at rest uh as one 695 00:27:18,289 --> 00:27:15,840 conscious experience 696 00:27:20,990 --> 00:27:18,299 right and I think this is where we kind 697 00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:21,000 of have this bridge across to 698 00:27:25,370 --> 00:27:23,460 um some Eastern traditions in terms of 699 00:27:27,890 --> 00:27:25,380 their understanding of reality 700 00:27:30,289 --> 00:27:27,900 because the notion there is that 701 00:27:34,190 --> 00:27:32,149 think about this even with a human being 702 00:27:35,930 --> 00:27:34,200 right and and I understand when people 703 00:27:37,789 --> 00:27:35,940 say well you can't just like reduce this 704 00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:37,799 so the way human beings exist but just 705 00:27:43,789 --> 00:27:40,500 follow this as a metaphor for a second 706 00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:43,799 when we we are a social species right 707 00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,559 and any one of us that went and lived 708 00:27:50,090 --> 00:27:48,720 completely by ourselves and had no 709 00:27:52,010 --> 00:27:50,100 interaction with another human being 710 00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,020 eventually 711 00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:54,240 we might go a little bit insane but it 712 00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,919 would certainly be a bit boring because 713 00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:58,200 all we would ever have is our own 714 00:28:03,049 --> 00:28:00,720 Impressions interpretations 715 00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:03,059 and it would get very static and and 716 00:28:08,930 --> 00:28:07,140 stale and so the notion is that with the 717 00:28:11,630 --> 00:28:08,940 original conscious intelligence the 718 00:28:13,370 --> 00:28:11,640 cosmic intelligence the only way that 719 00:28:16,010 --> 00:28:13,380 you could actually have 720 00:28:18,430 --> 00:28:16,020 novel experience right that wasn't just 721 00:28:21,649 --> 00:28:18,440 the same old same old would be to 722 00:28:23,570 --> 00:28:21,659 effectively disassociate 723 00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:23,580 and 724 00:28:28,490 --> 00:28:26,820 for a period of time anyway forget what 725 00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:28,500 you ultimately are right the same way 726 00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:30,299 that the whirlpool we think about a 727 00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:31,980 Whirlpool as having Consciousness just 728 00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,480 use that metaphor 729 00:28:38,210 --> 00:28:35,400 it for a while forgets it it's the river 730 00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:38,220 right and so it takes on new experience 731 00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:40,380 because you've changed the the 732 00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:42,840 parameters of perceived existence and 733 00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,520 when you change the parameters of 734 00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:46,559 perceived existence you create novel 735 00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:48,179 experience because experience is a 736 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:49,679 combination of 737 00:28:53,990 --> 00:28:52,440 the being and the environment right and 738 00:28:56,990 --> 00:28:54,000 the interaction between the two so by 739 00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:57,000 creating a new iteration of a conscious 740 00:29:02,330 --> 00:28:59,520 being even if it's ultimately illusory 741 00:29:04,669 --> 00:29:02,340 and temporary you're able to have novel 742 00:29:06,110 --> 00:29:04,679 experience which you can then in the way 743 00:29:08,450 --> 00:29:06,120 that the whirlpool eventually dissolve 744 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:08,460 back into the river the river absorbs 745 00:29:14,570 --> 00:29:11,340 that that that memory that understanding 746 00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:14,580 that experience and now the totality has 747 00:29:19,850 --> 00:29:16,860 access to new information so it's almost 748 00:29:22,010 --> 00:29:19,860 like this trick that happens that allows 749 00:29:23,630 --> 00:29:22,020 new information to happen because of 750 00:29:25,909 --> 00:29:23,640 this temporary forgetting and this 751 00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:25,919 disassociation from the original 752 00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:27,659 Consciousness intelligence into a second 753 00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:30,480 one and that's how you begin to have 754 00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:32,700 this process 755 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:36,600 um of this ongoing situation where you 756 00:29:40,909 --> 00:29:39,000 you just keep scaling that out right 757 00:29:42,409 --> 00:29:40,919 um that we're not suggesting it's just 758 00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:42,419 well I'm not suggesting it's just one 759 00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,220 Cosmic intelligence than a bunch of 760 00:29:49,070 --> 00:29:47,039 human beings I'm saying that all of 761 00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:49,080 these beings that we we hear about the 762 00:29:52,850 --> 00:29:50,820 Myriad different beings we hear about in 763 00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:52,860 the UFO phenomenon 764 00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:55,919 um are also disassociated altars of that 765 00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:57,480 original intelligence and that's partly 766 00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,360 why I have spoken with some confidence 767 00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:02,640 around the sense that they're ultimately 768 00:30:07,730 --> 00:30:04,620 on the same Journey that we are because 769 00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:07,740 ultimately we are the same thing at root 770 00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:10,100 we are iterations 771 00:30:15,409 --> 00:30:12,480 instantiations of this one Cosmic 772 00:30:18,289 --> 00:30:15,419 intelligence which ultimately returns to 773 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:18,299 source so the same lessons apply even if 774 00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:19,620 we're at different points along the 775 00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:21,179 Spectrum 776 00:30:27,409 --> 00:30:22,740 that's exactly what I wanted to go next 777 00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:27,419 and that's this uh y posit non-human uh 778 00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:30,360 conscious agents uh outside of just uh 779 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:32,700 the human ones and I I mean first of all 780 00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:34,140 uh 781 00:30:39,049 --> 00:30:37,440 take take aliens or the others out of 782 00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:39,059 the equation we already have non-human 783 00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,279 Intelligence on this planet and just as 784 00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,200 a reminder everybody you know we have 785 00:30:47,690 --> 00:30:45,200 insects with animals with cellular life 786 00:30:50,330 --> 00:30:47,700 there's all of these different 787 00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:50,340 things that that are that we call life 788 00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:53,100 which exists uh you know coexist in our 789 00:30:57,409 --> 00:30:55,500 in our current commonly accepted 790 00:30:58,490 --> 00:30:57,419 experience of being what it means to be 791 00:30:59,930 --> 00:30:58,500 human 792 00:31:02,570 --> 00:30:59,940 um so we don't have to take a huge leap 793 00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:02,580 to say that that if we're gonna go at 794 00:31:06,649 --> 00:31:04,559 different differentiated conscious 795 00:31:10,909 --> 00:31:06,659 experience that it that it takes on many 796 00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:10,919 different kinds of of forms uh but to 797 00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:13,140 then go to the next level and say that 798 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:15,720 well there are uh there are other beings 799 00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:17,940 that are you know maybe humanoid or 800 00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:20,700 human-like in their and their level of 801 00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:22,440 Consciousness or greater level of 802 00:31:27,409 --> 00:31:25,080 Consciousness you know why why do we 803 00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,419 need to go there and and before I want 804 00:31:31,250 --> 00:31:29,760 you to talk about that before you do I 805 00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:31,260 also want to point out that we have 806 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:33,000 Traditions that talk about this already 807 00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,260 as well so our human history is full of 808 00:31:42,430 --> 00:31:40,320 uh mythologies and conceptions of other 809 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,440 intelligent agents that are not human 810 00:31:49,789 --> 00:31:45,600 that interact with the human sort of 811 00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:49,799 plane of experience uh and and to many 812 00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:51,480 ancients that there would have been no 813 00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:53,220 separation between these worlds the 814 00:31:57,769 --> 00:31:55,140 these worlds where the One World 815 00:31:59,930 --> 00:31:57,779 essentially uh that all these different 816 00:32:04,190 --> 00:31:59,940 kinds of of beings interacted together 817 00:32:06,590 --> 00:32:04,200 in but it's just until recently that we 818 00:32:08,210 --> 00:32:06,600 you know we we kind of kicked those 819 00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:08,220 other beings out of the picture and said 820 00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:10,380 well no only what's happening is in you 821 00:32:14,029 --> 00:32:12,299 know on on Earth and what we can test in 822 00:32:16,370 --> 00:32:14,039 a laboratory and that other stuff is 823 00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,380 happens in the in the world of the 824 00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,240 imagination 825 00:32:23,810 --> 00:32:21,600 um and then enter into the the 20th 826 00:32:27,110 --> 00:32:23,820 century and where we are now so many 827 00:32:30,169 --> 00:32:27,120 experiences uh related to 828 00:32:32,029 --> 00:32:30,179 uh you know other entities seemingly 829 00:32:34,430 --> 00:32:32,039 from other planets or other dimensions 830 00:32:36,289 --> 00:32:34,440 or alternate realities uh we're having 831 00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:36,299 experiences people telling us that 832 00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:38,880 they've had experiences of these and so 833 00:32:44,810 --> 00:32:41,940 that then forces us to to revisit that 834 00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:44,820 question do we jettison those things or 835 00:32:51,289 --> 00:32:47,760 or continue to bucket them into the 836 00:32:54,350 --> 00:32:51,299 category of imagined experience or can 837 00:32:57,529 --> 00:32:54,360 we pull them into experience itself into 838 00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:57,539 reality itself and and if we do so how 839 00:33:02,029 --> 00:33:00,240 do they fit in that larger unified 840 00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:02,039 picture so I wonder if you could talk to 841 00:33:05,330 --> 00:33:03,240 that 842 00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:05,340 right so I would say one thing about 843 00:33:09,169 --> 00:33:07,080 that is that in the same way against 844 00:33:12,350 --> 00:33:09,179 using the analogy of the whirlpool again 845 00:33:14,930 --> 00:33:12,360 because that temporary manifestation of 846 00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:14,940 the water is so convincing right it I 847 00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:16,260 mean if you've ever seen a Whirlpool 848 00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:18,179 it's pretty remarkable because 849 00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,980 they have so much coherence and 850 00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:22,320 consistency right and you can you can 851 00:33:26,269 --> 00:33:24,840 you know sort of sort of send a log its 852 00:33:28,009 --> 00:33:26,279 way and it's a little swirled down and 853 00:33:29,149 --> 00:33:28,019 get seemingly swallowed by this 854 00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:29,159 Whirlpool right you're like that's so 855 00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,440 weird because ultimately it's the river 856 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:34,019 um so because 857 00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:38,760 this process of individuation iteration 858 00:33:45,049 --> 00:33:42,240 um individual manifestation incarnation 859 00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:45,059 right Incarnation uh relates to the word 860 00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,039 carne which is meat right so basically 861 00:33:54,289 --> 00:33:49,919 means Spirit taking form in the in the 862 00:33:56,029 --> 00:33:54,299 form of a body right like a body mind so 863 00:33:58,070 --> 00:33:56,039 if you think about it it wasn't that 864 00:33:59,570 --> 00:33:58,080 long ago the human beings were so 865 00:34:02,029 --> 00:33:59,580 convinced that we were the center of the 866 00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:02,039 universe that we assumed the Earth was 867 00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:03,419 at the exact center of the universe 868 00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:05,640 right we thought that everything we saw 869 00:34:11,629 --> 00:34:08,460 out there was really there for our sake 870 00:34:14,750 --> 00:34:11,639 right all these assumptions because this 871 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,760 forgetting process where we we postulate 872 00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:16,560 connection to some sort of monotheistic 873 00:34:20,810 --> 00:34:18,839 God and we'll have to later on get on to 874 00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:20,820 how that's different because I think for 875 00:34:25,609 --> 00:34:22,320 some people they'll immediately think 876 00:34:27,169 --> 00:34:25,619 like personal Christian God right when 877 00:34:28,970 --> 00:34:27,179 we say Cosmic intelligence we're not 878 00:34:32,570 --> 00:34:28,980 actually saying that I think 879 00:34:34,070 --> 00:34:32,580 some of what you realize when you try to 880 00:34:36,589 --> 00:34:34,080 take some of that out some of that 881 00:34:38,690 --> 00:34:36,599 baggage out some aspects of reality make 882 00:34:40,609 --> 00:34:38,700 more sense once you once you do that 883 00:34:42,290 --> 00:34:40,619 maybe get into that 884 00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:42,300 but it wasn't all that long ago that 885 00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:43,740 you'll hear about like for instance like 886 00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:46,560 human Kings right so like you know the 887 00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,599 king of France or something that really 888 00:34:54,109 --> 00:34:50,480 sits in his room and thinks that like 889 00:34:57,950 --> 00:34:54,119 God looks at him like just one step down 890 00:35:00,589 --> 00:34:57,960 from Divinity right and this King this 891 00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:00,599 human being this dude really believes 892 00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:03,359 that he is like Central to the entire 893 00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:05,880 creation the entire Cosmic creation he's 894 00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:08,160 one step down from the the very center 895 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:10,260 of it all he literally believes that 896 00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:12,420 because that forgetting process and that 897 00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:15,599 individuation process is so coherent and 898 00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:17,160 strong right 899 00:35:22,609 --> 00:35:20,160 over time like you said we've found life 900 00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:22,619 in so many places even on our planet we 901 00:35:28,130 --> 00:35:24,660 find in the most seemingly inhospitable 902 00:35:29,630 --> 00:35:28,140 regions life tends to exist right using 903 00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:29,640 the Jeff Goldblum character from 904 00:35:34,510 --> 00:35:32,280 Jurassic Park life finds a way right 905 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:34,520 like it just does it seems to be 906 00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:37,740 hardwired into whatever reality is and 907 00:35:40,910 --> 00:35:39,359 we can we can keep parsing that out 908 00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:40,920 whatever it is 909 00:35:46,849 --> 00:35:44,280 seems to be Plum full of 910 00:35:48,890 --> 00:35:46,859 different iterations of Consciousness 911 00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:48,900 right different excitations of that one 912 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:50,940 Consciousness that have taken on a form 913 00:35:58,010 --> 00:35:54,320 of temporary individual identity right 914 00:35:59,690 --> 00:35:58,020 and so when you think about it it's it's 915 00:36:02,210 --> 00:35:59,700 kind of a ludicrous even from a 916 00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:02,220 materialist model right you don't have 917 00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:04,380 to argue with materials anymore that 918 00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:06,780 aliens exist somewhere they just believe 919 00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,220 that all the evidence in the world 920 00:36:13,010 --> 00:36:10,320 suggests that with the immense size of 921 00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:13,020 the cosmos knowing now that based on the 922 00:36:17,329 --> 00:36:15,060 constraints or what we perceive as the 923 00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,339 constraints of materiality around us 924 00:36:22,670 --> 00:36:20,000 there should be many many many many many 925 00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:22,680 uh life-bearing planets out there even 926 00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:24,240 if it's the exception to the rule the 927 00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,300 the cosmos is so immense that they must 928 00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:29,520 exist and if 929 00:36:36,950 --> 00:36:33,119 for the materialists if all life is is a 930 00:36:39,109 --> 00:36:36,960 further development and orientation of 931 00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,119 material basically right biochemical 932 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,280 material then that kind of Life must 933 00:36:46,970 --> 00:36:43,920 exist everywhere what I'm saying is that 934 00:36:49,310 --> 00:36:46,980 it's not really that biomaterial uh 935 00:36:51,530 --> 00:36:49,320 component nature it's something more 936 00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:51,540 metaphysical than that but nevertheless 937 00:36:56,150 --> 00:36:54,540 we are seeing something that is true 938 00:36:57,290 --> 00:36:56,160 about the underlying structure which is 939 00:37:00,890 --> 00:36:57,300 that 940 00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:00,900 this process of constantly 941 00:37:06,470 --> 00:37:04,140 individuating of disassociating into new 942 00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:06,480 forms of Consciousness seems to be just 943 00:37:12,109 --> 00:37:09,720 built in and I think it's also helpful 944 00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:12,119 for a second to quickly point out that 945 00:37:15,950 --> 00:37:13,740 the reason why I use that term 946 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,960 disassociation and and Bernardo Castro 947 00:37:20,089 --> 00:37:18,240 again uses that in his model is because 948 00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:20,099 what we're pointing to there rather than 949 00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,859 materialism which again is a a wild leap 950 00:37:27,410 --> 00:37:25,140 that we have no evidence for and no way 951 00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:27,420 of testing apart from us being a 952 00:37:35,810 --> 00:37:32,630 we already have evidence for 953 00:37:38,530 --> 00:37:35,820 disassociation where one human being can 954 00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:38,540 literally have different 955 00:37:44,569 --> 00:37:41,640 individuated members inside of them 956 00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:44,579 right different people effectively and 957 00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:46,920 it's not just well I'm going to pretend 958 00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,540 to be extroverted in this one and 959 00:37:52,750 --> 00:37:50,400 introverted in this one and an athlete 960 00:37:56,089 --> 00:37:52,760 in this one and a scholar in this one 961 00:37:58,970 --> 00:37:56,099 these ones really take on a full formed 962 00:38:00,589 --> 00:37:58,980 identity even where the body seems to 963 00:38:02,750 --> 00:38:00,599 have a different experience of reality 964 00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:02,760 based on that mentation process we're 965 00:38:07,370 --> 00:38:04,380 back at that again where you can 966 00:38:10,910 --> 00:38:07,380 literally have one personality inside of 967 00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:10,920 one being that can be allergic to peanut 968 00:38:14,990 --> 00:38:12,900 butter and another Persona will not be 969 00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:15,000 allergic to peanut I mean testable I'm 970 00:38:19,210 --> 00:38:17,339 not talking about just they say this but 971 00:38:21,530 --> 00:38:19,220 you can actually see this in real time 972 00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:21,540 one will have an allergic reaction when 973 00:38:25,490 --> 00:38:23,880 one person is coming to the surface that 974 00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:25,500 body will not have an allergic reaction 975 00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:26,940 if another Persona has come to the 976 00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:30,079 surface and these are like 977 00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:32,460 evidenced in actual physiological 978 00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:33,839 reactions this is not something you can 979 00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:36,060 fake in other words right so 980 00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:38,820 this is partly why even with criminal 981 00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:39,900 courts 982 00:38:43,130 --> 00:38:41,579 people try to figure out if if the 983 00:38:44,930 --> 00:38:43,140 person is having multiple personalities 984 00:38:47,329 --> 00:38:44,940 within them because that literally 985 00:38:49,849 --> 00:38:47,339 changes how we think about 986 00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:49,859 who's responsible right 987 00:38:54,349 --> 00:38:51,599 um for like a crime that was committed 988 00:38:56,990 --> 00:38:54,359 so that that's why you know he points to 989 00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:57,000 that because we already have evidence of 990 00:39:02,210 --> 00:38:59,700 how this happens and how it becomes 991 00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:02,220 completely convincing to those different 992 00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,660 personas and what we're saying is 993 00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:05,220 ultimately that's true all the way back 994 00:39:10,190 --> 00:39:07,980 to the cosmic intelligence 995 00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,200 um but that's what I would say is that 996 00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:12,240 in the same way that we've now realize 997 00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:13,440 it's silly to think that we're the 998 00:39:17,450 --> 00:39:15,060 center of the universe and that that 999 00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:17,460 King of France is like you know one step 1000 00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:19,440 down from the cosmic intelligence that's 1001 00:39:24,770 --> 00:39:21,780 a very small-minded 1002 00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,780 um way of seeing reality based on hubris 1003 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:27,359 and a lack of imagination right but it's 1004 00:39:32,150 --> 00:39:30,060 partly because that Whirlpool is so 1005 00:39:34,609 --> 00:39:32,160 coherent and cause so cohesive so 1006 00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:34,619 consistent that we get fooled by it but 1007 00:39:39,530 --> 00:39:36,780 what we should realize is that what is 1008 00:39:43,310 --> 00:39:39,540 is pointing towards is actually likely a 1009 00:39:46,370 --> 00:39:43,320 cosmos teeming with life and to bring in 1010 00:39:48,829 --> 00:39:46,380 um you know Donald Hoffman's Point again 1011 00:39:50,089 --> 00:39:48,839 Evolution so if someone would say well 1012 00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:50,099 if that's true why are we not seeing 1013 00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:53,160 more aliens all the time right and what 1014 00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:54,540 Donald Hoffman would say is because 1015 00:39:59,870 --> 00:39:57,599 because we are again just seeing the 1016 00:40:01,609 --> 00:39:59,880 dials on the dashboard and if the dials 1017 00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:01,619 on the dashboard 1018 00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:03,720 we don't need to see gray aliens to 1019 00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:06,720 survive then that was that was filtered 1020 00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:09,240 out of the dials that we were presented 1021 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:11,880 with right over time our ancestors and 1022 00:40:15,710 --> 00:40:14,160 so we have to remember that we you know 1023 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,720 you take all these different pieces and 1024 00:40:19,490 --> 00:40:17,520 put them together and try to keep them 1025 00:40:22,310 --> 00:40:19,500 in your conscious awareness because 1026 00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,320 again we are not seeing all that is 1027 00:40:26,450 --> 00:40:24,480 around us right now at all we are seeing 1028 00:40:28,370 --> 00:40:26,460 not even just a filtered version we're 1029 00:40:31,490 --> 00:40:28,380 seeing a different representation an 1030 00:40:34,130 --> 00:40:31,500 interface the same way that a a desktop 1031 00:40:37,069 --> 00:40:34,140 interface references you know zeros and 1032 00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:37,079 ones and binary code and things nothing 1033 00:40:41,089 --> 00:40:39,359 like the actual thing but it's it's it 1034 00:40:43,250 --> 00:40:41,099 it's exists in a way that makes it 1035 00:40:46,569 --> 00:40:43,260 navigable for us right so that's what 1036 00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,579 we're saying here too that that actually 1037 00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,960 life is teaming right throughout the 1038 00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:50,880 cosmos and even around us right now I'm 1039 00:40:54,890 --> 00:40:52,380 not just talking about an Alpha Centauri 1040 00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:54,900 I'm saying that right now there are 1041 00:41:00,530 --> 00:40:58,079 numerous intelligences around us 1042 00:41:02,450 --> 00:41:00,540 you know a hair breath the way but we 1043 00:41:04,609 --> 00:41:02,460 have just filtered out awareness of them 1044 00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:04,619 because it has not been essential to our 1045 00:41:08,569 --> 00:41:06,180 survival and the propagation of the 1046 00:41:09,710 --> 00:41:08,579 species so keep all these things in mind 1047 00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:09,720 but that's that's where the 1048 00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:11,820 Consciousness piece comes in and why it 1049 00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:14,460 just seems to be built in that this 1050 00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:17,640 frequent disassociation process that 1051 00:41:21,310 --> 00:41:19,980 feeds back into the whole is Central to 1052 00:41:24,050 --> 00:41:21,320 the entire thing 1053 00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:24,060 well and let's explore that some more as 1054 00:41:30,770 --> 00:41:27,359 well so what is the uh maybe for lack of 1055 00:41:33,970 --> 00:41:30,780 a better term what is the cosmic aim we 1056 00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:33,980 did talk about there was a need for 1057 00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:37,980 novel experience that instead of just uh 1058 00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:41,280 being in in the state of rest and not 1059 00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:44,040 having anything new arise within that 1060 00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:47,280 that awareness we we don't have that we 1061 00:41:52,430 --> 00:41:49,619 have distinct different experiences 1062 00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:52,440 arising because that creates novelty 1063 00:41:58,010 --> 00:41:54,960 that creates meaning meaning is born 1064 00:42:01,069 --> 00:41:58,020 from the relationship between these EXP 1065 00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:01,079 experiences so you can't have meaning 1066 00:42:07,310 --> 00:42:03,780 without relationality and so we have 1067 00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:07,320 this uh in a way to sort of fractal uh 1068 00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:10,200 explosion of meaning and relationality 1069 00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:14,160 of rising out of the cosmic mind 1070 00:42:20,030 --> 00:42:16,380 um you know is that the 1071 00:42:23,770 --> 00:42:20,040 chief aim of conscious activity is there 1072 00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:23,780 a larger goal can we speak intelligently 1073 00:42:30,650 --> 00:42:27,140 intelligibly about any of those Concepts 1074 00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:30,660 uh what do you think about that 1075 00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:32,880 but always say that you know 1076 00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:35,760 people will phrase it something like you 1077 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:39,359 are an extension of the cosmos exploring 1078 00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:40,560 itself 1079 00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:41,880 and that's what they basically mean 1080 00:42:47,150 --> 00:42:45,060 right and so just to steer back on what 1081 00:42:50,210 --> 00:42:47,160 you were saying there again the key is 1082 00:42:53,450 --> 00:42:50,220 you have to have the perception 1083 00:42:56,390 --> 00:42:53,460 of a disassociated individual 1084 00:43:00,349 --> 00:42:56,400 identity to have novel experience right 1085 00:43:03,710 --> 00:43:02,210 that's that's really key here because 1086 00:43:04,970 --> 00:43:03,720 that that's what allows the whole thing 1087 00:43:06,829 --> 00:43:04,980 to keep going and that's what actually 1088 00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:06,839 fuels the whole thing to keep going 1089 00:43:11,089 --> 00:43:08,720 through multiple iterations is because 1090 00:43:13,550 --> 00:43:11,099 you keep doing that and what's what's 1091 00:43:15,650 --> 00:43:13,560 interesting here is that 1092 00:43:18,170 --> 00:43:15,660 we have to remember that using your 1093 00:43:20,089 --> 00:43:18,180 analogy of the fractals we are fractal 1094 00:43:21,890 --> 00:43:20,099 representations of that original Cosmic 1095 00:43:22,730 --> 00:43:21,900 intelligence really and so the same way 1096 00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:22,740 that 1097 00:43:27,410 --> 00:43:25,440 you know every drop has the ocean in it 1098 00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:27,420 right 1099 00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:29,160 not only is it fundamentally the ocean 1100 00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:31,440 right a drop is the ocean but it has the 1101 00:43:35,690 --> 00:43:33,180 entire ocean in every drop in the same 1102 00:43:38,270 --> 00:43:35,700 way you know we have 1103 00:43:39,950 --> 00:43:38,280 at least in potentia everything about 1104 00:43:41,329 --> 00:43:39,960 the cosmic intelligence inside of us 1105 00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,339 this is again like we talked about a 1106 00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,440 couple episodes ago uh you know the 1107 00:43:46,730 --> 00:43:45,119 Buddha and all of us kind of thing that 1108 00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:46,740 already exists and basically is about 1109 00:43:51,230 --> 00:43:49,200 just removing the the distortions that 1110 00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:51,240 prevent us from seeing it 1111 00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:56,930 so this is key is that you you 1112 00:44:02,690 --> 00:43:59,460 um you create individual 1113 00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,700 um iterations of personas that because 1114 00:44:07,309 --> 00:44:04,800 of that change in orientation that 1115 00:44:09,770 --> 00:44:07,319 because that identity 1116 00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:09,780 even though it's partial it's 1117 00:44:14,569 --> 00:44:11,700 deliberately partial because you have to 1118 00:44:18,290 --> 00:44:14,579 have that partialness that forgetting 1119 00:44:20,809 --> 00:44:18,300 process in order to have a a new way of 1120 00:44:22,849 --> 00:44:20,819 lensing the world right of like 1121 00:44:26,450 --> 00:44:22,859 um you think about you know how you can 1122 00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,460 you know take uh some sort of glass and 1123 00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:28,079 change the way the lights coming in kind 1124 00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:29,220 of thing right so you think about 1125 00:44:36,349 --> 00:44:32,880 yourself like that that you are going to 1126 00:44:39,650 --> 00:44:36,359 um refract light differently because of 1127 00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:39,660 your uniqueness right and so that allows 1128 00:44:44,089 --> 00:44:42,060 for the plethora of Many Many Colors to 1129 00:44:46,430 --> 00:44:44,099 then be ultimately perceived by the 1130 00:44:49,609 --> 00:44:46,440 totality so that process keeps happening 1131 00:44:51,050 --> 00:44:49,619 over and over again and not only that 1132 00:44:53,089 --> 00:44:51,060 but but getting back to what I was 1133 00:44:55,730 --> 00:44:53,099 saying about we ultimately are that 1134 00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:55,740 Cosmic intelligence 1135 00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:58,500 so in the same way we eventually get to 1136 00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:01,560 the point where we too want to see what 1137 00:45:06,770 --> 00:45:05,160 it's like to seed creation right so for 1138 00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,780 us right now that may be virtual 1139 00:45:11,329 --> 00:45:08,880 realities right that we are are now 1140 00:45:13,069 --> 00:45:11,339 creating but eventually you evolve to 1141 00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,079 the point where you can do that in what 1142 00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:15,119 is quote unquote perceived as reality 1143 00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:16,920 right now so even though it's really a 1144 00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:19,200 Dreamscape right another a Mente a field 1145 00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:21,839 of coherent mentation you eventually 1146 00:45:25,809 --> 00:45:23,339 evolve to the point where even that 1147 00:45:29,329 --> 00:45:25,819 becomes malleable to you and then you 1148 00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:29,339 concede new civilizations new life forms 1149 00:45:32,930 --> 00:45:31,500 in the same way that happened with the 1150 00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,940 original Cosmic intelligence and that's 1151 00:45:36,109 --> 00:45:34,560 where you get this notion of Dimensions 1152 00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:36,119 that that 1153 00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,140 um 1154 00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,839 about Dimensions but as I've said before 1155 00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,280 when I talk about Dimensions I don't 1156 00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:43,200 mean physical universe is sitting next 1157 00:45:48,829 --> 00:45:45,780 to each other right I I mean different 1158 00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,839 coherent fields of mentation but that's 1159 00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:50,880 why it's really interesting around the 1160 00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:53,220 phenomenon question because 1161 00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:56,460 when people say oh so is is Darren's 1162 00:46:01,130 --> 00:45:58,800 model that 1163 00:46:02,809 --> 00:46:01,140 we can only be the creation quote 1164 00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,819 unquote of the One initial Cosmic 1165 00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:04,560 intelligence that I'm saying well we 1166 00:46:11,270 --> 00:46:07,200 could be an iteration 1167 00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:11,280 like 17 layers down right so you've had 1168 00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:12,960 beings because we have to remember even 1169 00:46:17,630 --> 00:46:15,359 when we look at again at the clues of 1170 00:46:19,790 --> 00:46:17,640 what looks like the physical Universe we 1171 00:46:23,089 --> 00:46:19,800 are a relatively very young species 1172 00:46:25,550 --> 00:46:23,099 right on an on an outer arm of a galaxy 1173 00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,560 that's not that old right and this outer 1174 00:46:29,390 --> 00:46:27,599 arm is one of the the newer aspects of 1175 00:46:31,790 --> 00:46:29,400 the Galaxy right like the center of the 1176 00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:31,800 Galaxy is much older so all of that 1177 00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:34,619 gives you clues about likely there are 1178 00:46:39,230 --> 00:46:36,060 life forms that have been around for 1179 00:46:41,150 --> 00:46:39,240 much much longer than us right and so 1180 00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:41,160 they have gotten to the point where they 1181 00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:43,440 can do that level of manipulation of 1182 00:46:47,809 --> 00:46:45,660 quote unquote reality right what we 1183 00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:47,819 perceive as material reality right now 1184 00:46:52,910 --> 00:46:49,020 which is again just a partial 1185 00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:52,920 understanding they eventually can 1186 00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:55,260 basically iterate that like a virtual 1187 00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:56,460 reality 1188 00:47:00,290 --> 00:46:57,839 because this is again where people 1189 00:47:02,390 --> 00:47:00,300 sometimes will say oh so is it possible 1190 00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:02,400 that the the phenomenon exists because 1191 00:47:06,829 --> 00:47:03,900 we're actually just in a simulation 1192 00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:06,839 right but the notion there is that these 1193 00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:08,400 beings are in the actual physical 1194 00:47:12,410 --> 00:47:10,560 universe and what we are is kind of just 1195 00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:12,420 like a computer program iteration right 1196 00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:14,460 right and I'm saying no the entire thing 1197 00:47:17,809 --> 00:47:16,440 is a dream scheme a streamscape all the 1198 00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:17,819 way up and all the way down all there is 1199 00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:19,500 is consciousness so in that sense 1200 00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:22,440 everything's virtual right uh but that 1201 00:47:25,550 --> 00:47:23,640 doesn't mean it's any less real because 1202 00:47:28,910 --> 00:47:25,560 that's the fundamental nature of reality 1203 00:47:30,770 --> 00:47:28,920 there is no core base physical reality 1204 00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,780 where some beings are manipulating us 1205 00:47:34,270 --> 00:47:33,359 it's Dreamscapes all the way up and all 1206 00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:34,280 the way down 1207 00:47:37,790 --> 00:47:36,300 and and 1208 00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:37,800 I want you to talk a little bit more 1209 00:47:43,790 --> 00:47:41,280 about this is there a through line of of 1210 00:47:45,170 --> 00:47:43,800 what it means to be 1211 00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,180 you 1212 00:47:50,270 --> 00:47:47,520 know so there's a 1213 00:47:53,210 --> 00:47:50,280 you did talk just a second there about 1214 00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:53,220 you know scaling up and demand the 1215 00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:55,440 dimensionality of I guess you know who 1216 00:48:00,589 --> 00:47:57,839 you are who you perceive yourself to be 1217 00:48:04,030 --> 00:48:00,599 and then as you scale up having the 1218 00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:04,040 ability to essentially you know create 1219 00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:07,200 uh you know galaxies or whatnot and the 1220 00:48:13,250 --> 00:48:09,720 way that that we perceive to be within 1221 00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:13,260 one now but you know is there a 1222 00:48:19,550 --> 00:48:16,680 why I guess posit that there is a 1223 00:48:23,329 --> 00:48:19,560 through line of Personality there and 1224 00:48:26,450 --> 00:48:23,339 where does that uh sort of um 1225 00:48:29,329 --> 00:48:26,460 conclusion Insight come from does it 1226 00:48:32,210 --> 00:48:29,339 come from uh the underlying model itself 1227 00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:32,220 does it come from uh you know hints that 1228 00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:35,460 we get from things like uh past life 1229 00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:37,319 experience accounts or you know 1230 00:48:43,609 --> 00:48:39,780 near-death experience like where do you 1231 00:48:45,890 --> 00:48:43,619 draw from to kind of get to that place 1232 00:48:47,690 --> 00:48:45,900 well I think if you think about it 1233 00:48:50,690 --> 00:48:47,700 theoretically for a second you would 1234 00:48:52,730 --> 00:48:50,700 recognize that if it's true that there's 1235 00:48:55,370 --> 00:48:52,740 this original conscious intelligence 1236 00:48:57,890 --> 00:48:55,380 Cosmic intelligence 1237 00:49:00,410 --> 00:48:57,900 um through which everything we perceive 1238 00:49:02,870 --> 00:49:00,420 as the material reality is actually just 1239 00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,880 excitation of its mentation basically 1240 00:49:06,349 --> 00:49:05,040 what it's thinking about right 1241 00:49:09,050 --> 00:49:06,359 um 1242 00:49:11,210 --> 00:49:09,060 then 1243 00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:11,220 what would be the most 1244 00:49:17,329 --> 00:49:15,119 useful and meaningful and 1245 00:49:20,210 --> 00:49:17,339 could most contribute back something 1246 00:49:22,970 --> 00:49:20,220 really significant is if you could have 1247 00:49:27,470 --> 00:49:22,980 not just one iteration as one identity 1248 00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:27,480 but you you initiate or instantiate an 1249 00:49:31,790 --> 00:49:29,640 individual whirlpool and then you let 1250 00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:31,800 that Whirlpool experience 1251 00:49:37,250 --> 00:49:35,520 multiple Rivers right and which 1252 00:49:39,170 --> 00:49:37,260 ultimately are all part of the same body 1253 00:49:41,089 --> 00:49:39,180 of water right across the entire planet 1254 00:49:41,870 --> 00:49:41,099 to use the to stretch the metaphor some 1255 00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:41,880 more 1256 00:49:45,470 --> 00:49:43,800 but the notion is that you know rather 1257 00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:45,480 than just having one lifetime what we 1258 00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:47,280 perceive as one Lifetime and then you 1259 00:49:50,089 --> 00:49:48,660 dissolve back like the whirlpool 1260 00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:50,099 dissolves back into the river and it 1261 00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,660 never was 1262 00:49:55,730 --> 00:49:53,520 effectively 1263 00:49:57,710 --> 00:49:55,740 what we can actually have is and this is 1264 00:49:58,970 --> 00:49:57,720 where I think my model and my 1265 00:50:01,550 --> 00:49:58,980 understanding would differ from someone 1266 00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,560 like Tom Campbell so 1267 00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:03,119 um 1268 00:50:08,150 --> 00:50:06,480 in my sense we actually can have 1269 00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:08,160 all of the above 1270 00:50:13,370 --> 00:50:10,260 I think we do actually have all of the 1271 00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:13,380 above I think that every time every 1272 00:50:18,109 --> 00:50:16,200 space has ever existed is like a cosmic 1273 00:50:20,089 --> 00:50:18,119 address the same way that you can 1274 00:50:23,089 --> 00:50:20,099 pull up a website that was you know 1275 00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:23,099 designed 12 years ago the same way you 1276 00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:25,200 can do that for Nathan who is 12 years 1277 00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:27,240 old and skinned his name one time 1278 00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,220 because he fell off his bike that 1279 00:50:33,290 --> 00:50:31,440 iteration of Nathan and that experience 1280 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,300 which again is just an excitation of 1281 00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,520 Consciousness right that is always 1282 00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:37,680 available when we use these terms in 1283 00:50:41,450 --> 00:50:39,839 time like always that kind of 1284 00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:41,460 in some ways defeats the purpose but 1285 00:50:44,990 --> 00:50:43,260 just think of these things as ultimately 1286 00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:45,000 there is no linear time right that's an 1287 00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:46,800 illusion 1288 00:50:54,890 --> 00:50:52,549 but you create this iteration of 1289 00:50:56,569 --> 00:50:54,900 individual identity and then you run it 1290 00:50:58,970 --> 00:50:56,579 through multiple 1291 00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:58,980 iterations right you take that whirlpool 1292 00:51:04,510 --> 00:51:01,319 and you say let's see what it's like for 1293 00:51:07,609 --> 00:51:04,520 Nathan to become like a 16th century 1294 00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:07,619 monk you know living in a monastery in 1295 00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,440 in northern Europe right and then you 1296 00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:11,520 know another time is going to be 1297 00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:13,020 something else 1298 00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:13,680 um 1299 00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:15,540 and what's interesting even in 1300 00:51:19,970 --> 00:51:18,180 reincarnation studies not to get too off 1301 00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:19,980 track here but what's really interesting 1302 00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,500 is that people often 1303 00:51:26,930 --> 00:51:24,960 counter to I think popular belief you 1304 00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:26,940 don't necessarily come as a as a monk 1305 00:51:30,049 --> 00:51:28,440 one time living in a monastery then you 1306 00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:30,059 become a camel or something in Egypt 1307 00:51:35,329 --> 00:51:32,099 generally you actually tend to 1308 00:51:36,829 --> 00:51:35,339 reincarnate this is based on studies in 1309 00:51:38,930 --> 00:51:36,839 the similar part of the world and 1310 00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:38,940 sometimes associated with some of the 1311 00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:40,440 same kind of families and things like 1312 00:51:43,250 --> 00:51:41,280 that 1313 00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:43,260 so it's almost like all of these are 1314 00:51:47,089 --> 00:51:44,700 individual experiments that are being 1315 00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:47,099 run where different iterations and 1316 00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:49,140 different variables are changed in that 1317 00:51:53,450 --> 00:51:51,359 experiment but the experiment runs over 1318 00:51:55,370 --> 00:51:53,460 what we perceive as multiple lifetimes 1319 00:51:58,390 --> 00:51:55,380 because that becomes a much more 1320 00:52:01,309 --> 00:51:58,400 interesting data set and experiential 1321 00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,319 experiment to then feed back into the 1322 00:52:05,210 --> 00:52:03,359 totality and we have to remember these 1323 00:52:08,089 --> 00:52:05,220 things like something like time is Again 1324 00:52:10,490 --> 00:52:08,099 part of the illusion that happens in a 1325 00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:10,500 Dreamscape so 1326 00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:13,260 Nathan as he is now and Nathan as he was 1327 00:52:17,210 --> 00:52:15,240 as somebody else in a previous lifetime 1328 00:52:19,849 --> 00:52:17,220 quote unquote 1329 00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:19,859 um are are always equally 1330 00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:22,859 available always equally alive quote 1331 00:52:26,450 --> 00:52:24,960 unquote right because again once you 1332 00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:26,460 really wrap your head around this is all 1333 00:52:30,950 --> 00:52:28,440 Dreamscape this is all just excitations 1334 00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,960 of Consciousness nothing ever has to go 1335 00:52:35,150 --> 00:52:32,880 away nothing ever does go away it just 1336 00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:35,160 becomes different iterations 1337 00:52:38,569 --> 00:52:36,480 um you know the same way that you can 1338 00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:38,579 again use to use really crude metaphors 1339 00:52:42,770 --> 00:52:40,079 we're beginning to see evidence of this 1340 00:52:45,530 --> 00:52:42,780 in our reality you could save uh you 1341 00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:45,540 know a score you got on Pac-Man right 1342 00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,460 um or you could save a certain virtual 1343 00:52:51,650 --> 00:52:49,200 reality screen you really liked and go 1344 00:52:53,390 --> 00:52:51,660 back to it anytime right and so if 1345 00:52:55,370 --> 00:52:53,400 someone from 100 years ago saw us doing 1346 00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:55,380 that they're like wow that's magical how 1347 00:52:58,010 --> 00:52:56,640 are you doing that and it's like we 1348 00:53:00,770 --> 00:52:58,020 think well that's that's not difficult 1349 00:53:03,410 --> 00:53:00,780 at all so just think about that in terms 1350 00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:03,420 of this that ultimately time is illusory 1351 00:53:06,890 --> 00:53:05,280 there's no such thing space too right 1352 00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,900 these are again just fields of mentation 1353 00:53:11,410 --> 00:53:09,599 excitations of consciousness 1354 00:53:14,270 --> 00:53:11,420 but the reason why there are not only 1355 00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:14,280 multiple intelligences multiple beings 1356 00:53:18,530 --> 00:53:15,839 around the cosmos because that's just 1357 00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:18,540 more interesting for the totality but so 1358 00:53:22,730 --> 00:53:21,119 too are there multiple lifetimes 1359 00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:22,740 which by the way sometimes means one 1360 00:53:25,250 --> 00:53:24,000 last time you might be a gray alien 1361 00:53:26,690 --> 00:53:25,260 another time you might be a human being 1362 00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,700 right 1363 00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:29,040 um again we get these we get these 1364 00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:31,680 individual you know streams where for a 1365 00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:32,579 while you're going to be a human being 1366 00:53:36,650 --> 00:53:34,500 in one part of the world and part of one 1367 00:53:38,750 --> 00:53:36,660 aspect of an experiment but some people 1368 00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,760 come in with a very different beginning 1369 00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:41,040 experiment they were they would they 1370 00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:42,960 come in for different reasons so it gets 1371 00:53:47,809 --> 00:53:46,200 complex but the bottom line is that not 1372 00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:47,819 only are there many many intelligences 1373 00:53:52,190 --> 00:53:50,160 but there are also many many iterations 1374 00:53:54,109 --> 00:53:52,200 of those intelligences because that 1375 00:53:56,650 --> 00:53:54,119 ultimately is more meaningful and 1376 00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:56,660 contributes more significant information 1377 00:54:01,670 --> 00:54:00,240 more exciting aliveness to the totality 1378 00:54:04,730 --> 00:54:01,680 which is ultimately what this seems to 1379 00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,950 yeah I 1380 00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:08,640 I mean I personally really like this 1381 00:54:13,970 --> 00:54:12,240 model I think uh I I respond to it 1382 00:54:16,130 --> 00:54:13,980 um 1383 00:54:18,349 --> 00:54:16,140 and and I I have to say I'm not a person 1384 00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:18,359 that's always thought of things in this 1385 00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:19,680 way 1386 00:54:23,690 --> 00:54:21,599 um and I definitely used to be a strong 1387 00:54:25,849 --> 00:54:23,700 materialist and 1388 00:54:26,750 --> 00:54:25,859 um essentially an atheist 1389 00:54:28,910 --> 00:54:26,760 um 1390 00:54:30,410 --> 00:54:28,920 when I would be asked about what happens 1391 00:54:32,569 --> 00:54:30,420 after I die 1392 00:54:34,069 --> 00:54:32,579 I would just say well you know what 1393 00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,079 happened before I was born you know 1394 00:54:39,170 --> 00:54:36,240 nothing and there's there's no 1395 00:54:41,329 --> 00:54:39,180 experience that that is like uh and so I 1396 00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:41,339 don't need to worry about that 1397 00:54:47,089 --> 00:54:44,040 um I was sort of that rooted in in the 1398 00:54:49,250 --> 00:54:47,099 material perspective but you know I 1399 00:54:51,049 --> 00:54:49,260 gotta say that that you know what this 1400 00:54:53,410 --> 00:54:51,059 model does for me is it really does 1401 00:54:58,430 --> 00:54:53,420 redeem a lot of 1402 00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:58,440 uh my own lived experience it also 1403 00:55:02,329 --> 00:54:59,880 um 1404 00:55:05,329 --> 00:55:02,339 resonates with with kind of my intuition 1405 00:55:07,430 --> 00:55:05,339 as well about the way that that reality 1406 00:55:08,329 --> 00:55:07,440 happens to be 1407 00:55:10,130 --> 00:55:08,339 um 1408 00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:10,140 I also find it to be more meaningful 1409 00:55:15,049 --> 00:55:12,420 just that at a root level it's much more 1410 00:55:16,790 --> 00:55:15,059 meaningful to look at the world and and 1411 00:55:19,569 --> 00:55:16,800 reality in this way 1412 00:55:23,650 --> 00:55:19,579 uh because it it 1413 00:55:26,569 --> 00:55:23,660 does in many ways 1414 00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:26,579 mirror the uh the kind of Act of 1415 00:55:30,890 --> 00:55:28,559 Creation you know it is the act of 1416 00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:30,900 creation and when you think about art 1417 00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:33,300 and music and Beauty you know these are 1418 00:55:39,589 --> 00:55:36,240 things that that come that pour out of 1419 00:55:43,790 --> 00:55:39,599 out of the the process of living 1420 00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:43,800 right and uh why would the universe not 1421 00:55:48,290 --> 00:55:44,760 want 1422 00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:48,300 if it had a a level of awareness which 1423 00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,280 is what we were saying it is aware at 1424 00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:53,040 its root fundamental level it is aware 1425 00:55:58,849 --> 00:55:54,960 why would it not want 1426 00:56:01,370 --> 00:55:58,859 to as in as it's in the process of its 1427 00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,380 breathing out and breathing in uh to 1428 00:56:06,829 --> 00:56:04,079 create and to and to experience and to 1429 00:56:10,370 --> 00:56:06,839 have as much creation and as much 1430 00:56:12,710 --> 00:56:10,380 experience as possible and to learn from 1431 00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:12,720 that right so that's the other I think 1432 00:56:16,910 --> 00:56:14,700 aspect of this that is 1433 00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,920 um you know partly what we can 1434 00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:18,480 understand and partly you know things 1435 00:56:24,890 --> 00:56:21,540 which we cannot but that which it is 1436 00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:24,900 seeking to do and and know and be you 1437 00:56:30,770 --> 00:56:27,119 know it's not that it's uh you know sort 1438 00:56:33,470 --> 00:56:30,780 of stuck in a uh in a thought Loop about 1439 00:56:36,589 --> 00:56:33,480 how you know it could devise uh you know 1440 00:56:38,030 --> 00:56:36,599 100 of the best ways to you know to you 1441 00:56:40,730 --> 00:56:38,040 know to do the same thing over and over 1442 00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:40,740 again it's uh it's Desiring new 1443 00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:42,839 experience and and building upon 1444 00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,480 experience that it has had before and 1445 00:56:50,030 --> 00:56:47,760 that is also intuitive to how we live 1446 00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:50,040 our lives like you you don't live your 1447 00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,319 life and and just keep I mean many of us 1448 00:56:55,609 --> 00:56:54,000 do I guess but keep doing the same thing 1449 00:56:57,230 --> 00:56:55,619 over and over again but if you do 1450 00:57:00,170 --> 00:56:57,240 something and it's going to causes you 1451 00:57:04,849 --> 00:57:00,180 harm or causes someone else harm or 1452 00:57:07,370 --> 00:57:04,859 if it if it uh you know engenders a a 1453 00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,380 visceral negative response in who you 1454 00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:09,599 are as a person you try not to do that 1455 00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:12,720 again so you try to avoid that that 1456 00:57:17,809 --> 00:57:15,180 happening again and and this is much in 1457 00:57:22,069 --> 00:57:17,819 the same way right it's it's that there 1458 00:57:26,329 --> 00:57:22,079 is this uh experimental nature of of 1459 00:57:28,849 --> 00:57:26,339 life that as it as it expands out it is 1460 00:57:31,010 --> 00:57:28,859 learning along the way and and trying 1461 00:57:33,049 --> 00:57:31,020 not to repeat the same mistakes now 1462 00:57:36,170 --> 00:57:33,059 that's not to say that it doesn't and 1463 00:57:38,030 --> 00:57:36,180 and I mean Lord knows we all uh fall 1464 00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:38,040 into sort of traps where we continue to 1465 00:57:42,589 --> 00:57:40,500 make the same mistakes over and over 1466 00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:42,599 again but we also are given 1467 00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:45,359 opportunities I think to to to not do 1468 00:57:50,109 --> 00:57:48,720 that right so uh that's where this 1469 00:57:52,730 --> 00:57:50,119 concept of 1470 00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,740 Grace and Redemption kind of enters into 1471 00:57:59,390 --> 00:57:55,200 the equation as well that that we're not 1472 00:58:02,750 --> 00:57:59,400 defined solely by these uh these habits 1473 00:58:04,670 --> 00:58:02,760 that we kind of accrue in the uh that 1474 00:58:07,250 --> 00:58:04,680 glom on to us that we have this 1475 00:58:09,530 --> 00:58:07,260 opportunity to break free of that crust 1476 00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:09,540 and and just like you it's like a 1477 00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,400 caterpillar would break free of that 1478 00:58:17,210 --> 00:58:13,440 Chrysalis you know to become something 1479 00:58:19,130 --> 00:58:17,220 else uh and to take flight so I know I'm 1480 00:58:21,230 --> 00:58:19,140 wearing a kind of waxing poetic here but 1481 00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:21,240 I'm just wanted to take a moment to say 1482 00:58:26,089 --> 00:58:24,420 that this model for me uh has a lot of 1483 00:58:28,250 --> 00:58:26,099 personal meaning 1484 00:58:31,130 --> 00:58:28,260 no which is not even just to say how 1485 00:58:33,950 --> 00:58:31,140 much I think it best fits what we in in 1486 00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:33,960 our own community of Interest here fits 1487 00:58:40,370 --> 00:58:37,440 the different areas of phenomena that we 1488 00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:40,380 are interested in that that for us I 1489 00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:43,799 think uh are that are the light coming 1490 00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:46,500 through the cracks of the door saying 1491 00:58:52,370 --> 00:58:48,839 that there is a world outside that door 1492 00:58:55,490 --> 00:58:52,380 that is uh you know more real than the 1493 00:58:57,890 --> 00:58:55,500 room that we find ourselves in 1494 00:58:59,990 --> 00:58:57,900 again I think um some of what you 1495 00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,000 reflected on there made me think about 1496 00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:02,640 the piece I mentioned earlier about 1497 00:59:07,549 --> 00:59:05,520 how this notion of a cosmic intelligence 1498 00:59:10,190 --> 00:59:07,559 May differ from like a personal God you 1499 00:59:11,809 --> 00:59:10,200 might get in a religious perspective 1500 00:59:13,789 --> 00:59:11,819 and the difference is you know so some 1501 00:59:15,710 --> 00:59:13,799 people you know kind of when I studied 1502 00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:15,720 the philosophy of religion 1503 00:59:19,430 --> 00:59:17,760 one of the central questions was the or 1504 00:59:22,010 --> 00:59:19,440 Central issues was the quote unquote 1505 00:59:23,630 --> 00:59:22,020 problem of evil right how I'm sure you 1506 00:59:26,089 --> 00:59:23,640 want to come across that in seminary too 1507 00:59:28,370 --> 00:59:26,099 so so how is it that a good God would 1508 00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:28,380 allow bad things to happen and sometimes 1509 00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:30,960 they add to good people right 1510 00:59:36,349 --> 00:59:33,119 but the notion with this model is that 1511 00:59:39,410 --> 00:59:36,359 again we are fractal representations of 1512 00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:39,420 God of that Central Intelligence and so 1513 00:59:45,890 --> 00:59:43,920 there is no Daddy figure saying I'm 1514 00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:45,900 gonna spank you if you do the wrong 1515 00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:48,420 thing by giving you hell or something 1516 00:59:52,849 --> 00:59:50,640 you know fire and brimstone 1517 00:59:55,730 --> 00:59:52,859 rather what we have is multiple 1518 00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,740 iterations to try things like you say 1519 00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:57,599 you bang your knee and it hurts you go 1520 01:00:01,309 --> 00:59:59,760 I'm not going to do the next time you 1521 01:00:02,809 --> 01:00:01,319 say something when you get angry and you 1522 01:00:04,490 --> 01:00:02,819 realize I hurt someone you care about so 1523 01:00:05,870 --> 01:00:04,500 you go next time I'm going to rethink 1524 01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:05,880 how I do that 1525 01:00:09,650 --> 01:00:07,440 and not only that but when you think 1526 01:00:10,609 --> 01:00:09,660 about human history 1527 01:00:12,829 --> 01:00:10,619 um 1528 01:00:15,530 --> 01:00:12,839 I think because of the media and 1529 01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,540 everything and Sensational you know if 1530 01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,460 it bleeds it leads kind of thing we 1531 01:00:21,049 --> 01:00:19,440 forget how much 1532 01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,059 in some ways how much more peaceful the 1533 01:00:25,849 --> 01:00:23,280 world is than it used to be right so 1534 01:00:28,190 --> 01:00:25,859 eventually along the way we realized 1535 01:00:30,589 --> 01:00:28,200 listen if I constantly try and attack 1536 01:00:33,890 --> 01:00:30,599 that neighboring tribe because I want 1537 01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:33,900 their crops or whatever then they might 1538 01:00:37,789 --> 01:00:36,000 do the same thing to me 1539 01:00:39,470 --> 01:00:37,799 um and in some ways they're kind of like 1540 01:00:41,210 --> 01:00:39,480 me in that sense that we both have 1541 01:00:43,130 --> 01:00:41,220 families we care about we don't want to 1542 01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:43,140 lose possessions we don't want to lose 1543 01:00:47,930 --> 01:00:45,599 So eventually we realize it's better if 1544 01:00:50,450 --> 01:00:47,940 we just say let's make a pact or we 1545 01:00:52,609 --> 01:00:50,460 equally get some of our own land and we 1546 01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:52,619 we support each other or we at least we 1547 01:00:57,170 --> 01:00:54,540 don't attack each other anymore right so 1548 01:00:59,230 --> 01:00:57,180 over time we begin to recognize 1549 01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:59,240 that that's in everybody's best interest 1550 01:01:04,430 --> 01:01:02,160 and as I mentioned before when I brought 1551 01:01:06,950 --> 01:01:04,440 an integral Theory eventually what 1552 01:01:09,950 --> 01:01:06,960 happens is our circle of and sphere of 1553 01:01:11,329 --> 01:01:09,960 concern gets larger and larger so at 1554 01:01:13,970 --> 01:01:11,339 first you know when you think about like 1555 01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:13,980 a five-year-old right like I wanna you 1556 01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,559 know ah everything's about them right 1557 01:01:19,849 --> 01:01:18,480 um to some degree cultures began that 1558 01:01:21,829 --> 01:01:19,859 way too so you can see some of the same 1559 01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,839 progression that's that's predictable 1560 01:01:25,549 --> 01:01:24,480 both in individuals and in cultures so 1561 01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:25,559 same way that a five-year-old is 1562 01:01:30,049 --> 01:01:27,119 different than a 15 year old and it's 1563 01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:30,059 different than a 30 year old 1564 01:01:34,490 --> 01:01:31,920 you know you have 1565 01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:34,500 um this this this notion that over time 1566 01:01:39,230 --> 01:01:37,260 we went from caring just about our 1567 01:01:40,970 --> 01:01:39,240 family unit to then caring about a tribe 1568 01:01:43,490 --> 01:01:40,980 to then caring about maybe our nation 1569 01:01:45,230 --> 01:01:43,500 state to then sometimes maybe caring 1570 01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:45,240 about the people who look like us or 1571 01:01:49,549 --> 01:01:47,640 identify about things like we do to 1572 01:01:51,289 --> 01:01:49,559 eventually realizing it's broader than 1573 01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:51,299 that it's got to be all Humanity right 1574 01:01:55,849 --> 01:01:53,700 we gotta we gotta be about human rights 1575 01:01:59,030 --> 01:01:55,859 which is the recognition that we're all 1576 01:02:01,849 --> 01:01:59,040 in this together that for me to you know 1577 01:02:03,289 --> 01:02:01,859 expect you know it's the the golden rule 1578 01:02:05,390 --> 01:02:03,299 that I would expect you to do to me what 1579 01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:05,400 I would do to you kind of thing 1580 01:02:10,130 --> 01:02:07,619 and then we realized wait a second turns 1581 01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:10,140 out that animals are conscious agents 1582 01:02:14,690 --> 01:02:12,240 too right that have feelings and 1583 01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:14,700 emotions so we should you know we've 1584 01:02:19,549 --> 01:02:16,740 we've seen increased move towards 1585 01:02:21,710 --> 01:02:19,559 protection of animal rights right 1586 01:02:24,109 --> 01:02:21,720 um and growth of vegetarianism and 1587 01:02:26,329 --> 01:02:24,119 veganism and all these things 1588 01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:26,339 um and then what I'm saying is when you 1589 01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:27,839 scale it out even just some of the most 1590 01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:30,960 benevolent most evolved other non-human 1591 01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:32,640 intelligences 1592 01:02:36,430 --> 01:02:34,140 you eventually get to front where you 1593 01:02:39,289 --> 01:02:36,440 have kind of this cause cosmocentric 1594 01:02:42,890 --> 01:02:39,299 understanding of reality where every 1595 01:02:45,770 --> 01:02:42,900 sentient being is valuable and deserves 1596 01:02:49,130 --> 01:02:45,780 freedom and respect right 1597 01:02:51,049 --> 01:02:49,140 uh so so we see this basically this 1598 01:02:53,210 --> 01:02:51,059 experiment runs because the goal is that 1599 01:02:55,490 --> 01:02:53,220 eventually through our own experience 1600 01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:55,500 through our own trial and error we 1601 01:03:00,890 --> 01:02:58,319 determine in the end that it's not good 1602 01:03:02,809 --> 01:03:00,900 to do bad things because ultimately 1603 01:03:06,049 --> 01:03:02,819 that either hurts us or other people 1604 01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:06,059 that are ultimately also us right so 1605 01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:07,619 this is where the non-duality piece 1606 01:03:12,589 --> 01:03:09,720 comes in when you start recognizing 1607 01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:12,599 not just conceptually I mean in your 1608 01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:15,119 bones when you really feel like 1609 01:03:19,130 --> 01:03:17,520 everybody's ultimately iterations of the 1610 01:03:20,510 --> 01:03:19,140 same thing we're ultimately one 1611 01:03:23,450 --> 01:03:20,520 Consciousness just taking different 1612 01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:23,460 temporary forms then you really want the 1613 01:03:27,589 --> 01:03:25,380 best for the the whole because you 1614 01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:27,599 recognize you yourself are ultimately 1615 01:03:32,450 --> 01:03:29,520 that 1616 01:03:34,370 --> 01:03:32,460 well you you mentioned non-duality and I 1617 01:03:36,950 --> 01:03:34,380 wanted to talk about that some more as 1618 01:03:37,730 --> 01:03:36,960 well because we do use that phrase quite 1619 01:03:40,670 --> 01:03:37,740 a bit 1620 01:03:43,370 --> 01:03:40,680 and uh I think it'd be worth 1621 01:03:45,109 --> 01:03:43,380 expounding on it a little bit more and 1622 01:03:48,349 --> 01:03:45,119 we had a conversation not too long ago 1623 01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:48,359 where you uh kind of helped me 1624 01:03:53,030 --> 01:03:50,880 understand it a little bit better by 1625 01:03:55,370 --> 01:03:53,040 saying it a little bit differently and 1626 01:03:59,329 --> 01:03:55,380 that he said that inonduality is just 1627 01:04:02,210 --> 01:03:59,339 not two and uh you know it's it's also 1628 01:04:04,010 --> 01:04:02,220 not saying it's Oneness either right so 1629 01:04:05,930 --> 01:04:04,020 I wonder if you could kind of talk to 1630 01:04:08,450 --> 01:04:05,940 that a little bit more but as I I found 1631 01:04:11,329 --> 01:04:08,460 that to be particularly useful 1632 01:04:13,549 --> 01:04:11,339 um and it's not hard for me to get the 1633 01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:13,559 concept of we're all part of this 1634 01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:15,839 conscious you know this larger 1635 01:04:20,210 --> 01:04:18,000 Consciousness and thus therefore we are 1636 01:04:21,950 --> 01:04:20,220 all connected we are all essentially a 1637 01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:21,960 part of the same thing that there really 1638 01:04:28,190 --> 01:04:25,680 is no at a root level distinction 1639 01:04:30,289 --> 01:04:28,200 um I I think I understand that and I I 1640 01:04:32,750 --> 01:04:30,299 really feel into that 1641 01:04:34,730 --> 01:04:32,760 um but I wonder if you could talk uh 1642 01:04:37,609 --> 01:04:34,740 specifically about the non-duality piece 1643 01:04:39,289 --> 01:04:37,619 and and how that fit fits in 1644 01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:39,299 well the first thing I would say is that 1645 01:04:46,309 --> 01:04:43,920 we have to recognize that ultimately 1646 01:04:47,809 --> 01:04:46,319 reality is not the reality that we can 1647 01:04:50,390 --> 01:04:47,819 conceive of 1648 01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:50,400 that whenever you have a conception 1649 01:04:55,370 --> 01:04:52,020 you've created a kind of a subject 1650 01:04:58,010 --> 01:04:55,380 object Duality right you've you've said 1651 01:05:00,530 --> 01:04:58,020 I am a being who can perceive a reality 1652 01:05:01,849 --> 01:05:00,540 and Define it as such right 1653 01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:01,859 um and so that we're back to that 1654 01:05:05,630 --> 01:05:03,839 question of when we are ultimately 1655 01:05:06,849 --> 01:05:05,640 excitations of the thing we're trying to 1656 01:05:09,950 --> 01:05:06,859 describe 1657 01:05:12,289 --> 01:05:09,960 you run into a conundrum so we are 1658 01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:12,299 convinced based on our our contemporary 1659 01:05:15,710 --> 01:05:13,680 society and the way that our our 1660 01:05:17,930 --> 01:05:15,720 languages modern languages have been 1661 01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:17,940 structured that this subject object 1662 01:05:23,150 --> 01:05:20,220 Duality is built into reality and it's 1663 01:05:24,829 --> 01:05:23,160 actually ultimately not 1664 01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:24,839 so 1665 01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:26,880 that's part of it 1666 01:05:30,530 --> 01:05:28,799 um we also yeah like in that 1667 01:05:32,089 --> 01:05:30,540 conversation we had 1668 01:05:35,150 --> 01:05:32,099 um the reason why we use this term 1669 01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:35,160 non-duality rather than just Oneness is 1670 01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:38,160 because it's not perfectly accurate to 1671 01:05:44,990 --> 01:05:41,520 say so everything is just one either 1672 01:05:47,089 --> 01:05:45,000 um but it's also not two right so 1673 01:05:48,230 --> 01:05:47,099 we've talked before about an Eastern 1674 01:05:50,210 --> 01:05:48,240 traditions 1675 01:05:52,370 --> 01:05:50,220 they are more comfortable 1676 01:05:55,190 --> 01:05:52,380 making definitions by negation right 1677 01:05:56,450 --> 01:05:55,200 that again it's this notion of who are 1678 01:05:58,190 --> 01:05:56,460 we as 1679 01:06:00,970 --> 01:05:58,200 you know finite 1680 01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:00,980 individuated temporary 1681 01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,799 loci of ultimate intelligence to say 1682 01:06:08,630 --> 01:06:06,720 exactly what it is we we can't know 1683 01:06:11,390 --> 01:06:08,640 right that anything we can conceive of 1684 01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:11,400 can't possibly be that thing that is 1685 01:06:16,849 --> 01:06:12,960 beyond our conceptions right you run 1686 01:06:19,309 --> 01:06:16,859 into a barrier there so what we 1687 01:06:20,510 --> 01:06:19,319 reduce it to is what we are comfortable 1688 01:06:24,829 --> 01:06:20,520 saying 1689 01:06:27,049 --> 01:06:24,839 these things that we Define as subject 1690 01:06:29,930 --> 01:06:27,059 object are really subject objects they 1691 01:06:32,329 --> 01:06:29,940 are not true non-duality right not not 1692 01:06:33,770 --> 01:06:32,339 twoness is what that basically means but 1693 01:06:35,750 --> 01:06:33,780 we have to be careful about saying 1694 01:06:38,809 --> 01:06:35,760 Oneness because that two is a conception 1695 01:06:40,609 --> 01:06:38,819 which is ultimately 1696 01:06:42,349 --> 01:06:40,619 again as the expression goes the Dao 1697 01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:42,359 that you can name is not the true Dao 1698 01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:46,319 right so that's sort of that that humble 1699 01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:49,200 One Step removed saying this is as close 1700 01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:50,880 as we can get to seeing what reality is 1701 01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:57,950 got it yeah that's it that's excellent 1702 01:07:00,890 --> 01:06:59,039 thank you 1703 01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:00,900 um well maybe in the last few minutes 1704 01:07:05,150 --> 01:07:03,119 here as we kind of move toward the the 1705 01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:05,160 back end of the episode 1706 01:07:13,670 --> 01:07:10,370 maybe we can speak to some evidence in 1707 01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:13,680 the phenomena that that we are often 1708 01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:17,039 very familiar with in the literature and 1709 01:07:22,970 --> 01:07:20,700 and why that you know sort of reinforces 1710 01:07:24,349 --> 01:07:22,980 this perspective so I don't know where 1711 01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,359 you necessarily want to start with that 1712 01:07:30,049 --> 01:07:26,640 we've got a lot of uh areas of 1713 01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:30,059 phenomenological experience uh from uh 1714 01:07:36,470 --> 01:07:32,640 you know the afterlife and past life 1715 01:07:39,069 --> 01:07:36,480 experience from uh the UFO experience of 1716 01:07:43,010 --> 01:07:39,079 course from remote viewing and and 1717 01:07:45,410 --> 01:07:43,020 non-locality uh Psy other LSI elements 1718 01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:45,420 uh I don't know take your pick what's 1719 01:07:47,930 --> 01:07:46,980 what feels like the best place to start 1720 01:07:49,609 --> 01:07:47,940 there 1721 01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:49,619 well that's that's great and I think it 1722 01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,880 would be helpful for us to go back and 1723 01:07:54,650 --> 01:07:52,799 forth here you you toss out an item and 1724 01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,660 I'll I'll respond to it so and then you 1725 01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:56,640 can give some feedback so like you say 1726 01:08:00,289 --> 01:07:57,839 you can pick any one of those how do 1727 01:08:02,569 --> 01:08:00,299 they fit into this model so let's start 1728 01:08:04,490 --> 01:08:02,579 with the the afterlife thing right so 1729 01:08:07,730 --> 01:08:04,500 these famous cases like Whitley strieber 1730 01:08:09,289 --> 01:08:07,740 you know uh ran into where deceased 1731 01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:09,299 relatives were showing up on one floor 1732 01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:10,980 of his cabin while gray aliens were 1733 01:08:15,170 --> 01:08:13,680 showing up upstairs right how how does 1734 01:08:16,669 --> 01:08:15,180 that happen and how does that fit within 1735 01:08:23,390 --> 01:08:16,679 this model 1736 01:08:26,030 --> 01:08:23,400 ultimate or final or a real barrier as 1737 01:08:28,610 --> 01:08:26,040 we perceive it because there is no 1738 01:08:31,669 --> 01:08:28,620 material existence which exists outside 1739 01:08:33,950 --> 01:08:31,679 of Consciousness which uh is the sum 1740 01:08:35,749 --> 01:08:33,960 total of what we are so when material 1741 01:08:37,610 --> 01:08:35,759 breaks down into soil again there's 1742 01:08:39,709 --> 01:08:37,620 nothing there no it's the other way 1743 01:08:42,289 --> 01:08:39,719 around the Consciousness is primary is 1744 01:08:44,809 --> 01:08:42,299 is first and anything that looks like 1745 01:08:48,590 --> 01:08:44,819 materiality is actually just temporary 1746 01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:48,600 and partial right and so 1747 01:08:53,809 --> 01:08:50,339 these others 1748 01:08:57,349 --> 01:08:53,819 seem to have a greater awareness of that 1749 01:08:59,630 --> 01:08:57,359 aspect of reality and they can 1750 01:09:01,430 --> 01:08:59,640 navigate between these different fields 1751 01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:01,440 of mentation so you might want to think 1752 01:09:05,090 --> 01:09:03,120 about like a phase shift so when we 1753 01:09:07,010 --> 01:09:05,100 quote unquote die all we're doing is 1754 01:09:08,990 --> 01:09:07,020 shifting from one field of meditation to 1755 01:09:13,130 --> 01:09:09,000 another right we're having kind of a 1756 01:09:15,470 --> 01:09:13,140 phase shift and these others some of 1757 01:09:16,849 --> 01:09:15,480 them can with ease navigate between 1758 01:09:19,309 --> 01:09:16,859 these different fields of mentation 1759 01:09:21,110 --> 01:09:19,319 right this is why I use that term 1760 01:09:23,150 --> 01:09:21,120 intermentational because they can cross 1761 01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,160 back and forth between all of these ones 1762 01:09:26,630 --> 01:09:24,960 and that's ultimately they really are 1763 01:09:28,430 --> 01:09:26,640 it's just different Dreamscapes so 1764 01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:28,440 you're in a different dream when you're 1765 01:09:32,090 --> 01:09:30,719 quote unquote dead but if you have again 1766 01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:32,100 you've developed your conscious 1767 01:09:36,950 --> 01:09:35,580 awareness you've become closer a little 1768 01:09:38,510 --> 01:09:36,960 bit anyway 1769 01:09:40,729 --> 01:09:38,520 to the kind of understanding the 1770 01:09:42,530 --> 01:09:40,739 original Cosmic intelligence has you 1771 01:09:44,990 --> 01:09:42,540 recognize how you can join dreams how 1772 01:09:48,110 --> 01:09:45,000 you can interpenetrate dreams right so 1773 01:09:49,870 --> 01:09:48,120 these others can bring your deceased 1774 01:09:52,370 --> 01:09:49,880 your deceased relatives setting quotes 1775 01:09:55,570 --> 01:09:52,380 into a room the same time that they show 1776 01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:55,580 up because again these are all malleable 1777 01:10:00,470 --> 01:09:58,560 interpenetratable uh fields of mentation 1778 01:10:03,229 --> 01:10:00,480 that they can navigate so 1779 01:10:04,970 --> 01:10:03,239 that's where that one comes in and uh in 1780 01:10:08,209 --> 01:10:04,980 terms of 1781 01:10:10,370 --> 01:10:08,219 I think one of the great uh obvious data 1782 01:10:12,650 --> 01:10:10,380 points in the UFO phenomenon to this 1783 01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:12,660 that speaks to this is how 1784 01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:14,400 people will speak about 1785 01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:16,560 being in nature somewhere and suddenly 1786 01:10:20,930 --> 01:10:19,199 it feels like just time stops right like 1787 01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:20,940 suddenly there's no bird sounds there's 1788 01:10:25,010 --> 01:10:23,640 no insect sounds there's no sign of wind 1789 01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:25,020 blowing there are some times where 1790 01:10:29,450 --> 01:10:27,120 people literally will turn around and 1791 01:10:33,229 --> 01:10:29,460 see their friends Frozen and suspended 1792 01:10:35,149 --> 01:10:33,239 animation right and these others will 1793 01:10:36,709 --> 01:10:35,159 step into the scene take them aboard a 1794 01:10:39,350 --> 01:10:36,719 craft they have some sort of interaction 1795 01:10:40,910 --> 01:10:39,360 they come back reality restarts 1796 01:10:43,310 --> 01:10:40,920 basically like it's a video game right 1797 01:10:45,890 --> 01:10:43,320 you press play again and keeps going the 1798 01:10:47,689 --> 01:10:45,900 people that were frozen so to speak have 1799 01:10:50,090 --> 01:10:47,699 no notion that there was any Gap in time 1800 01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:50,100 whatsoever and of course for those who 1801 01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:53,600 are looking for you know typical 1802 01:10:56,930 --> 01:10:55,440 materialistic evidence this is going to 1803 01:11:00,169 --> 01:10:56,940 be very hard to produce and this kind of 1804 01:11:01,550 --> 01:11:00,179 thing because this transcends our very 1805 01:11:03,110 --> 01:11:01,560 Notions of reality and the way that 1806 01:11:04,250 --> 01:11:03,120 materiality and space and time work 1807 01:11:06,590 --> 01:11:04,260 right so 1808 01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:06,600 as I've said many times one of the 1809 01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:08,880 biggest clues that that speaks in this 1810 01:11:13,550 --> 01:11:11,159 direction is is valet's comment about 1811 01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:13,560 the UFO phenomenon teaching us 1812 01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:15,300 fundamentally that we do not understand 1813 01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:17,040 space-time that it's not just that 1814 01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:18,719 they're doing some cool stuff that we 1815 01:11:22,689 --> 01:11:20,159 haven't figured out technologically yet 1816 01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:22,699 but literally that they're 1817 01:11:26,930 --> 01:11:24,540 understanding and their ability to 1818 01:11:29,209 --> 01:11:26,940 manipulate what we perceive as the 1819 01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:29,219 construct of space-time tells us that it 1820 01:11:34,250 --> 01:11:31,260 can't be what we think it actually is 1821 01:11:36,229 --> 01:11:34,260 and I'm saying it's because space and 1822 01:11:39,610 --> 01:11:36,239 time again are just temporary partial 1823 01:11:41,930 --> 01:11:39,620 constructs Within These Dreamscapes 1824 01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:41,940 and I want to touch on something before 1825 01:11:46,850 --> 01:11:45,360 I pick my own topic but that uh is that 1826 01:11:49,010 --> 01:11:46,860 this notion that we've touched on before 1827 01:11:50,870 --> 01:11:49,020 and that's I think this is something 1828 01:11:53,630 --> 01:11:50,880 that people can easily get confused on 1829 01:11:57,530 --> 01:11:53,640 and that's that just because these other 1830 01:12:00,050 --> 01:11:57,540 entities can you know interpenetrate uh 1831 01:12:04,010 --> 01:12:00,060 with our experience of reality does not 1832 01:12:06,770 --> 01:12:04,020 also mean that they are necessarily more 1833 01:12:10,250 --> 01:12:06,780 morally advanced than we are that they 1834 01:12:12,050 --> 01:12:10,260 uh that they may behave in ways that we 1835 01:12:14,570 --> 01:12:12,060 would look at and say oh that that 1836 01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:14,580 that's good behavior a behavior of a 1837 01:12:20,090 --> 01:12:17,520 higher conscious being uh so I think 1838 01:12:21,530 --> 01:12:20,100 that that's an easy misconception I know 1839 01:12:23,390 --> 01:12:21,540 that's a kind of a sidebar I don't want 1840 01:12:25,310 --> 01:12:23,400 to go too far down that rabbit hole but 1841 01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:25,320 I I wanted to touch on that because you 1842 01:12:29,630 --> 01:12:27,480 made me think about it 1843 01:12:32,510 --> 01:12:29,640 yeah I mean I think a great analogy 1844 01:12:33,770 --> 01:12:32,520 would be you know Nazi science was some 1845 01:12:35,870 --> 01:12:33,780 of the most advanced science in the 1846 01:12:37,850 --> 01:12:35,880 world at the time right they they 1847 01:12:40,010 --> 01:12:37,860 develop its groundbreaking technology 1848 01:12:41,630 --> 01:12:40,020 that to some degree fueled the advance 1849 01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:41,640 of our rocker program in our space 1850 01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:43,920 program right we we operation 1851 01:12:48,770 --> 01:12:45,840 paperclipse talks about this we brought 1852 01:12:50,990 --> 01:12:48,780 in thousands of ex-nazis to basically 1853 01:12:54,229 --> 01:12:51,000 you know fuel the growth of our space 1854 01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,239 program so that's a perfect example that 1855 01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:56,640 they were technologically some of the 1856 01:13:00,530 --> 01:12:58,320 furthest along out of any human 1857 01:13:02,990 --> 01:13:00,540 civilization and yet morally we would 1858 01:13:05,810 --> 01:13:03,000 say it was abhorrent what they did and 1859 01:13:07,430 --> 01:13:05,820 the Notions they had about life and 1860 01:13:09,169 --> 01:13:07,440 human beings and the Dignity of human 1861 01:13:11,570 --> 01:13:09,179 life while also being technologically 1862 01:13:13,990 --> 01:13:11,580 advanced we should take that lesson when 1863 01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:14,000 we apply it to uh the others as well 1864 01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:16,800 yeah for sure well I want to take I want 1865 01:13:22,850 --> 01:13:19,860 to take the topic of remote viewing I 1866 01:13:27,050 --> 01:13:22,860 like that notion quite a bit 1867 01:13:29,689 --> 01:13:27,060 um and I think most people have 1868 01:13:33,649 --> 01:13:29,699 experienced something akin to remote 1869 01:13:37,010 --> 01:13:33,659 viewing in their life uh they've had a a 1870 01:13:40,910 --> 01:13:37,020 premonition or they've had a 1871 01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:40,920 you know just an awareness of uh of a 1872 01:13:44,930 --> 01:13:42,480 family member that is going through 1873 01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:44,940 something and or maybe about to call 1874 01:13:48,830 --> 01:13:46,560 them and the call account comes through 1875 01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:48,840 so there are ways in which we acquire 1876 01:13:55,550 --> 01:13:52,560 knowledge that uh happen outside of the 1877 01:13:58,130 --> 01:13:55,560 conventional commonly accepted means of 1878 01:14:00,169 --> 01:13:58,140 acquiring information and in this model 1879 01:14:02,030 --> 01:14:00,179 the way I think about that uh you know 1880 01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:02,040 please correct me if I've got at this 1881 01:14:05,810 --> 01:14:03,360 wrong it's just the same way that I 1882 01:14:08,390 --> 01:14:05,820 think about how I retrieve information 1883 01:14:10,850 --> 01:14:08,400 in my own memory you know if I it 1884 01:14:13,310 --> 01:14:10,860 doesn't I don't have to uh you know kind 1885 01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:13,320 of wait for the bus to arrive if I want 1886 01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,600 to you know take a trip back to Nathan 1887 01:14:19,610 --> 01:14:17,280 from a few years ago when I went you 1888 01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:19,620 know on vacation I can just access that 1889 01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,260 information I can I can relive that that 1890 01:14:25,490 --> 01:14:24,000 experience I can you know if I'm 1891 01:14:27,649 --> 01:14:25,500 concentrating hard enough I can 1892 01:14:29,870 --> 01:14:27,659 essentially it's almost like I'm there 1893 01:14:33,169 --> 01:14:29,880 you know when it when it was happening 1894 01:14:36,590 --> 01:14:33,179 and so if if all of reality is is 1895 01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:36,600 consciousness is one grand mind then 1896 01:14:41,450 --> 01:14:39,120 remote viewing is in a way you know kind 1897 01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:41,460 of doing the same type of thing it's uh 1898 01:14:47,570 --> 01:14:45,120 it's it's it's tapping into that that uh 1899 01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:47,580 just the way things function and that 1900 01:14:52,910 --> 01:14:49,380 that gives us that access to information 1901 01:14:55,310 --> 01:14:52,920 no matter where it may be in in space 1902 01:14:57,169 --> 01:14:55,320 quote unquote or time 1903 01:15:00,110 --> 01:14:57,179 yeah absolutely that that's the 1904 01:15:03,110 --> 01:15:00,120 fundamental takeaway there is that space 1905 01:15:04,430 --> 01:15:03,120 and time can't be absolute and linear in 1906 01:15:07,550 --> 01:15:04,440 the way we think about them because 1907 01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:07,560 remote viewing is a thing right 1908 01:15:11,630 --> 01:15:09,120 um the 1909 01:15:13,070 --> 01:15:11,640 it seems like all the evidence seems to 1910 01:15:15,169 --> 01:15:13,080 suggest that 1911 01:15:19,610 --> 01:15:15,179 there are no limitations that that 1912 01:15:21,770 --> 01:15:19,620 information at any space at any time is 1913 01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:21,780 available all the time quote unquote 1914 01:15:26,810 --> 01:15:23,280 here's again where language kind of 1915 01:15:29,090 --> 01:15:26,820 traps us right but the notion is 1916 01:15:31,310 --> 01:15:29,100 and you know this is partly why the CIA 1917 01:15:33,530 --> 01:15:31,320 as well as the Soviets really spent 1918 01:15:35,570 --> 01:15:33,540 money you know the the the 1919 01:15:37,729 --> 01:15:35,580 program that the CIA funded around 1920 01:15:40,010 --> 01:15:37,739 remote viewing ran for 20 years because 1921 01:15:42,830 --> 01:15:40,020 the the concern was 1922 01:15:45,229 --> 01:15:42,840 if you can build a massive Vault with 1923 01:15:47,390 --> 01:15:45,239 you know 20-foot iron walls deep 1924 01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:47,400 underground but remote viewing is a real 1925 01:15:50,930 --> 01:15:48,960 thing then is any kind of secret 1926 01:15:52,729 --> 01:15:50,940 ultimately 1927 01:15:55,850 --> 01:15:52,739 able to be kept to secret and the answer 1928 01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:55,860 ultimately is no that we've seen many 1929 01:16:02,110 --> 01:15:59,520 many examples of prime evidence where it 1930 01:16:04,669 --> 01:16:02,120 becomes very clear 1931 01:16:06,890 --> 01:16:04,679 that anything in space and time is 1932 01:16:08,689 --> 01:16:06,900 available we think about Joe mcmonagle 1933 01:16:09,470 --> 01:16:08,699 you know he was given coordinates one 1934 01:16:11,930 --> 01:16:09,480 time 1935 01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:11,940 and suddenly finds himself accessing 1936 01:16:16,189 --> 01:16:14,640 this kind of pyramidal structures with 1937 01:16:17,750 --> 01:16:16,199 this kind of you know desert-like 1938 01:16:20,270 --> 01:16:17,760 landscape and so he thinks maybe he's 1939 01:16:21,530 --> 01:16:20,280 seeing ancient Egypt turns out later on 1940 01:16:24,050 --> 01:16:21,540 he finds out that he's actually remote 1941 01:16:25,070 --> 01:16:24,060 viewing Mars from like a million years 1942 01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:25,080 ago 1943 01:16:30,709 --> 01:16:28,260 this literally happens right this is not 1944 01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:30,719 metaphorical this is not he's using 1945 01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,760 imagination this is literally the way 1946 01:16:38,270 --> 01:16:35,040 that reality works I said the the notion 1947 01:16:40,669 --> 01:16:38,280 before of a cosmic address right that he 1948 01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:40,679 can tune in and and log on to that 1949 01:16:44,390 --> 01:16:42,480 Cosmic address of Mars a million years 1950 01:16:46,970 --> 01:16:44,400 ago the same way that you like you said 1951 01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:46,980 can tune into how Nathan felt about 1952 01:16:49,430 --> 01:16:48,239 something that happened three years ago 1953 01:16:51,350 --> 01:16:49,440 right 1954 01:16:53,390 --> 01:16:51,360 that that same way you access the memory 1955 01:16:57,050 --> 01:16:53,400 is actually true of any 1956 01:16:59,750 --> 01:16:57,060 space or time in reality that's 1957 01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:59,760 that's true and yes this absolutely 1958 01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:01,199 speaks to 1959 01:17:05,209 --> 01:17:02,880 um corroborating the validity of this 1960 01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:05,219 model because again none of these things 1961 01:17:10,490 --> 01:17:08,100 are actually real outside of excitations 1962 01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:10,500 of Consciousness and so because their 1963 01:17:15,290 --> 01:17:13,140 mentation processes that are not based 1964 01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:15,300 on materiality or time those are just 1965 01:17:21,050 --> 01:17:18,480 sort of local rule sets within the dream 1966 01:17:23,390 --> 01:17:21,060 then if you're coming from outside the 1967 01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:23,400 dream you can manipulate all of that and 1968 01:17:26,270 --> 01:17:24,960 access them in any way you want to and 1969 01:17:28,250 --> 01:17:26,280 that's exactly what we see with some of 1970 01:17:31,250 --> 01:17:28,260 these others again they can come in and 1971 01:17:32,270 --> 01:17:31,260 manipulate to what look like us as fixed 1972 01:17:34,370 --> 01:17:32,280 laws 1973 01:17:37,130 --> 01:17:34,380 of the cosmos they're not they're just 1974 01:17:39,050 --> 01:17:37,140 laws of our local fields of mandation so 1975 01:17:41,030 --> 01:17:39,060 they're more like rules in a video game 1976 01:17:42,950 --> 01:17:41,040 and if you're someone who's actually got 1977 01:17:45,290 --> 01:17:42,960 access to the program code you can just 1978 01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:45,300 change the laws right so that's that's 1979 01:17:49,970 --> 01:17:48,000 basically what's happening okay well 1980 01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:49,980 let's uh let's talk a little bit about 1981 01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:52,080 the others we've a bit more we've 1982 01:17:56,990 --> 01:17:53,520 certainly talked about them a decent 1983 01:17:59,510 --> 01:17:57,000 amount but uh like why interact with us 1984 01:18:02,750 --> 01:17:59,520 at all right so and the way I think 1985 01:18:04,189 --> 01:18:02,760 about this is uh you know I'm a I've got 1986 01:18:06,709 --> 01:18:04,199 a backyard and I've got let's say I've 1987 01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:06,719 got an Ann Hill back there uh if I want 1988 01:18:11,450 --> 01:18:09,120 to interact with it you know I can move 1989 01:18:13,250 --> 01:18:11,460 some dirt around and and they don't 1990 01:18:15,229 --> 01:18:13,260 understand why that's happening and I've 1991 01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:15,239 really just reordered their entire world 1992 01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:18,480 just with a stroke of a hand I don't 1993 01:18:23,149 --> 01:18:20,159 have to either though I could just 1994 01:18:25,070 --> 01:18:23,159 totally leave it alone uh and and let it 1995 01:18:28,729 --> 01:18:25,080 kind of go on its way 1996 01:18:32,030 --> 01:18:28,739 um so so why why are we getting 1997 01:18:32,649 --> 01:18:32,040 interaction at all from these others 1998 01:18:34,729 --> 01:18:32,659 um 1999 01:18:37,130 --> 01:18:34,739 or and I guess another way to think 2000 01:18:38,229 --> 01:18:37,140 about it too is is is some level of 2001 01:18:42,649 --> 01:18:38,239 interaction 2002 01:18:46,010 --> 01:18:42,659 uh always occurring regardless of you 2003 01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,020 know agenda or intent it's just that we 2004 01:18:51,709 --> 01:18:48,960 in our limited frame of perception 2005 01:18:53,450 --> 01:18:51,719 don't experience that but then there are 2006 01:18:55,250 --> 01:18:53,460 moments I guess that that are happening 2007 01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:55,260 where where that 2008 01:19:02,090 --> 01:18:58,560 experience breaks through uh kind of the 2009 01:19:03,110 --> 01:19:02,100 The Fog if you will uh so why what's 2010 01:19:04,850 --> 01:19:03,120 going on there 2011 01:19:07,189 --> 01:19:04,860 right so 2012 01:19:08,510 --> 01:19:07,199 so your last point I would say yes that 2013 01:19:10,250 --> 01:19:08,520 to some degree this interaction is 2014 01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:10,260 always going on 2015 01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:11,760 um I think that in some of the 2016 01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:14,159 revelatory experiences I've had I've had 2017 01:19:19,130 --> 01:19:16,320 it became very clear to me that 2018 01:19:22,490 --> 01:19:19,140 sometimes emotions that come over me or 2019 01:19:25,250 --> 01:19:22,500 are our actions I take interpenetrate 2020 01:19:28,910 --> 01:19:25,260 other realities and so there are 2021 01:19:31,130 --> 01:19:28,920 implications to our actions that impact 2022 01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:31,140 other realities and other entities right 2023 01:19:35,030 --> 01:19:33,600 the same with the gut bacteria right is 2024 01:19:36,770 --> 01:19:35,040 going to change what you choose for 2025 01:19:38,510 --> 01:19:36,780 lunch maybe right we know that that 2026 01:19:40,370 --> 01:19:38,520 happens that kind of thing right and I'm 2027 01:19:42,890 --> 01:19:40,380 saying imagine that but scaled out over 2028 01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:42,900 many many iterations of Dimensions where 2029 01:19:48,770 --> 01:19:45,900 there's this uh symbiotic relationship 2030 01:19:50,990 --> 01:19:48,780 across Dimensions not just across like 2031 01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:51,000 biomes in an ecosystem right so think 2032 01:19:54,050 --> 01:19:52,560 about it that way 2033 01:19:56,209 --> 01:19:54,060 I would also say in terms of different 2034 01:19:57,890 --> 01:19:56,219 kinds of interaction again think about 2035 01:20:00,290 --> 01:19:57,900 the lessons we've learned in human 2036 01:20:02,990 --> 01:20:00,300 history where uh when some of the 2037 01:20:04,790 --> 01:20:03,000 colonial Powers right 2038 01:20:06,350 --> 01:20:04,800 um 2039 01:20:08,270 --> 01:20:06,360 again thinking of the king of France 2040 01:20:11,830 --> 01:20:08,280 right the colonial powers 2041 01:20:13,850 --> 01:20:11,840 felt like they had a right to go in to 2042 01:20:17,209 --> 01:20:13,860 impoverished countries or third world 2043 01:20:19,310 --> 01:20:17,219 countries and basically take their 2044 01:20:21,649 --> 01:20:19,320 you know their resources and tell them 2045 01:20:23,390 --> 01:20:21,659 how things should be you know convince 2046 01:20:25,310 --> 01:20:23,400 them that their local religion or 2047 01:20:27,649 --> 01:20:25,320 spirituality was completely corrupt and 2048 01:20:29,689 --> 01:20:27,659 ridiculous and you should take our 2049 01:20:33,050 --> 01:20:29,699 Notions because they're the most 2050 01:20:35,950 --> 01:20:33,060 um you know Transcendent and evolved so 2051 01:20:38,630 --> 01:20:35,960 Colonial Powers Justified all sorts of 2052 01:20:41,390 --> 01:20:38,640 domination and oppression and 2053 01:20:44,390 --> 01:20:41,400 destruction basically of cultures they 2054 01:20:45,649 --> 01:20:44,400 viewed as lesser than them right there 2055 01:20:47,570 --> 01:20:45,659 are some of these others that basically 2056 01:20:50,270 --> 01:20:47,580 have that mentality about us because 2057 01:20:54,290 --> 01:20:50,280 again we're all as conscious agents 2058 01:20:56,270 --> 01:20:54,300 moving towards non-dual realization at 2059 01:20:59,630 --> 01:20:56,280 various points along that Spectrum so 2060 01:21:01,610 --> 01:20:59,640 many of us now that you know had and or 2061 01:21:03,649 --> 01:21:01,620 you know relatives and not too distant 2062 01:21:05,330 --> 01:21:03,659 past who were part of these clonal 2063 01:21:07,070 --> 01:21:05,340 powers that were basically dominating 2064 01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:07,080 the world 2065 01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:07,980 um 2066 01:21:11,689 --> 01:21:10,140 now we recognize that wasn't so good 2067 01:21:13,070 --> 01:21:11,699 actually you know what we did to the 2068 01:21:14,689 --> 01:21:13,080 indigenous peoples of various places 2069 01:21:16,729 --> 01:21:14,699 that were there long before us when we 2070 01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:16,739 came in as Europeans wasn't so good for 2071 01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:19,980 them and we now hopefully many of us see 2072 01:21:24,110 --> 01:21:22,560 many of the ways that our mindset in our 2073 01:21:25,310 --> 01:21:24,120 world view has all sorts of weaknesses 2074 01:21:26,930 --> 01:21:25,320 and ways that we're destroying the 2075 01:21:29,510 --> 01:21:26,940 planet because we kind of look at 2076 01:21:32,330 --> 01:21:29,520 everything as a commodity right 2077 01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:32,340 so um so some of them are still in that 2078 01:21:36,770 --> 01:21:35,219 kind of mentality right others are 2079 01:21:38,390 --> 01:21:36,780 further along the spectrum of 2080 01:21:40,130 --> 01:21:38,400 Consciousness development they've moved 2081 01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:40,140 more towards that non-tool realization 2082 01:21:45,649 --> 01:21:43,440 where they literally believe in their 2083 01:21:48,050 --> 01:21:45,659 bones if they have them maybe there are 2084 01:21:50,090 --> 01:21:48,060 sometimes you know exoskeletal some of 2085 01:21:52,669 --> 01:21:50,100 them right so it's a bit different yeah 2086 01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:52,679 but um for them you know they recognize 2087 01:21:56,209 --> 01:21:54,360 it to harm us is to harm themselves 2088 01:21:58,490 --> 01:21:56,219 because again ultimately they recognize 2089 01:22:00,830 --> 01:21:58,500 not just conceptually but they know 2090 01:22:03,169 --> 01:22:00,840 right they have this deep non-dual 2091 01:22:05,450 --> 01:22:03,179 realization that we are ultimately the 2092 01:22:08,330 --> 01:22:05,460 same thing and so they look at us more 2093 01:22:10,189 --> 01:22:08,340 like siblings earlier you know in the 2094 01:22:11,750 --> 01:22:10,199 development phase and they want to try 2095 01:22:13,610 --> 01:22:11,760 to help us but again because they 2096 01:22:15,290 --> 01:22:13,620 recognize that we were all fractal 2097 01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:15,300 representations of God 2098 01:22:19,970 --> 01:22:18,000 of the Central Intelligence they want to 2099 01:22:22,189 --> 01:22:19,980 help us to learn the lessons on our own 2100 01:22:24,169 --> 01:22:22,199 so that we make the right decisions 2101 01:22:26,330 --> 01:22:24,179 that ultimately end up benefiting the 2102 01:22:28,610 --> 01:22:26,340 species beneath us so to speak right the 2103 01:22:31,189 --> 01:22:28,620 biosphere that we're a part of but we do 2104 01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:31,199 it because we recognize that Oneness 2105 01:22:35,630 --> 01:22:33,360 that connection as well rather than you 2106 01:22:37,630 --> 01:22:35,640 know doing the homework for us they try 2107 01:22:40,370 --> 01:22:37,640 to encourage us they try to 2108 01:22:42,290 --> 01:22:40,380 inspire Us in lots of little ways I 2109 01:22:45,229 --> 01:22:42,300 think some of these most benevolent ones 2110 01:22:46,910 --> 01:22:45,239 are able to communicate if you tune into 2111 01:22:48,350 --> 01:22:46,920 that and sometimes I think people don't 2112 01:22:51,290 --> 01:22:48,360 realize that's what they're actually 2113 01:22:53,870 --> 01:22:51,300 communicating with but they do this 2114 01:22:57,050 --> 01:22:53,880 because they again also want to see us 2115 01:22:59,450 --> 01:22:57,060 move into a further iteration a further 2116 01:23:01,430 --> 01:22:59,460 level of development where we do things 2117 01:23:02,270 --> 01:23:01,440 for the right reasons because we too get 2118 01:23:03,850 --> 01:23:02,280 to the point where we realize 2119 01:23:06,290 --> 01:23:03,860 everything's connected 2120 01:23:09,890 --> 01:23:06,300 and as it I guess it's something like 2121 01:23:11,870 --> 01:23:09,900 too where we might want to approach a 2122 01:23:14,030 --> 01:23:11,880 cancer in the body and and just cut it 2123 01:23:16,550 --> 01:23:14,040 out let's get the cancer out instead of 2124 01:23:20,209 --> 01:23:16,560 actually figuring out a way if we could 2125 01:23:23,050 --> 01:23:20,219 just let the body heal itself to to not 2126 01:23:26,209 --> 01:23:23,060 take that you know drastic approach of 2127 01:23:28,310 --> 01:23:26,219 harming the organism but could we 2128 01:23:32,689 --> 01:23:28,320 somehow convince the organism to 2129 01:23:36,050 --> 01:23:32,699 recognize this you know behavioral uh 2130 01:23:38,810 --> 01:23:36,060 the object which manifests as a Cancer 2131 01:23:40,850 --> 01:23:38,820 and and get rid of it uh on its own that 2132 01:23:44,030 --> 01:23:40,860 would be the better way as opposed to 2133 01:23:45,590 --> 01:23:44,040 just taking that scalpel to it 2134 01:23:47,570 --> 01:23:45,600 yeah absolutely I mean this will be 2135 01:23:50,450 --> 01:23:47,580 controversial to some people 2136 01:23:53,030 --> 01:23:50,460 um but you know when you think about 2137 01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:53,040 you know moves towards naturopathic kind 2138 01:23:58,130 --> 01:23:55,679 of therapies and that kind of thing 2139 01:23:59,870 --> 01:23:58,140 what that sort of moves towards is this 2140 01:24:02,350 --> 01:23:59,880 notion or at least it puts us in the 2141 01:24:05,209 --> 01:24:02,360 right trajectory to understand again 2142 01:24:07,790 --> 01:24:05,219 that the material body the biochemical 2143 01:24:11,570 --> 01:24:07,800 makeup of the material body is not 2144 01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:11,580 ultimately a material construct right 2145 01:24:18,169 --> 01:24:15,600 you can do things that will impact it 2146 01:24:20,870 --> 01:24:18,179 right on on the temporary physical level 2147 01:24:23,570 --> 01:24:20,880 but that is actually 2148 01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:23,580 that top layer manifestation in what 2149 01:24:29,750 --> 01:24:26,400 looks like physicality is actually a 2150 01:24:32,750 --> 01:24:29,760 byproduct of many fields of mentation so 2151 01:24:35,450 --> 01:24:32,760 that's why sometimes healing really does 2152 01:24:38,870 --> 01:24:35,460 happen right it's not just because these 2153 01:24:41,090 --> 01:24:38,880 others have advanced technology that's 2154 01:24:42,470 --> 01:24:41,100 part of it but it's also because they 2155 01:24:43,610 --> 01:24:42,480 again have got to the point where the 2156 01:24:45,830 --> 01:24:43,620 same way they can make that wall 2157 01:24:48,649 --> 01:24:45,840 disappear right 2158 01:24:50,810 --> 01:24:48,659 as a thought form right not as material 2159 01:24:53,090 --> 01:24:50,820 construct but as a thought form in the 2160 01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:53,100 same way they can make a cancer go away 2161 01:24:57,169 --> 01:24:56,159 because it also is also ultimately some 2162 01:25:00,530 --> 01:24:57,179 sort of 2163 01:25:03,110 --> 01:25:00,540 temporary object or manifestation of 2164 01:25:04,850 --> 01:25:03,120 Consciousness right so 2165 01:25:06,169 --> 01:25:04,860 this goes all the way up and go all the 2166 01:25:07,930 --> 01:25:06,179 way down when you really think about the 2167 01:25:11,090 --> 01:25:07,940 implications for this it's really 2168 01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:11,100 immense and again Bernardo Castro's 2169 01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:12,960 talked about as well like 2170 01:25:17,149 --> 01:25:15,120 the way we would approach medicine would 2171 01:25:19,550 --> 01:25:17,159 be very very different very very 2172 01:25:22,430 --> 01:25:19,560 different essentially fundamentally 2173 01:25:25,310 --> 01:25:22,440 changed when we recognize that material 2174 01:25:28,610 --> 01:25:25,320 existence is ultimately a byproduct of 2175 01:25:30,770 --> 01:25:28,620 these deeper processes in mentation and 2176 01:25:32,810 --> 01:25:30,780 we would approach it very differently 2177 01:25:33,890 --> 01:25:32,820 because of that now maybe we're in a 2178 01:25:35,689 --> 01:25:33,900 period of time where we're kind of in 2179 01:25:38,570 --> 01:25:35,699 this awkward in between time where this 2180 01:25:41,630 --> 01:25:38,580 is the best we can do based on how much 2181 01:25:44,390 --> 01:25:41,640 how what degree of manipulation we have 2182 01:25:45,830 --> 01:25:44,400 as a capacity over reality but the 2183 01:25:48,770 --> 01:25:45,840 long-term goal is to get to a point 2184 01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:48,780 where we can actually become aware of 2185 01:25:54,709 --> 01:25:52,260 the things in us that are 2186 01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:54,719 creating the negative energy that is 2187 01:25:58,669 --> 01:25:56,880 ultimately going to form you know either 2188 01:26:00,129 --> 01:25:58,679 a cancer or a tumor or something right 2189 01:26:02,570 --> 01:26:00,139 because that energy 2190 01:26:05,149 --> 01:26:02,580 consolidates right it concretizes into 2191 01:26:06,890 --> 01:26:05,159 something that looks physical right and 2192 01:26:08,810 --> 01:26:06,900 I'm saying we already know that right 2193 01:26:10,189 --> 01:26:08,820 people who have negative thoughts all 2194 01:26:11,570 --> 01:26:10,199 the time eventually it breaks down their 2195 01:26:13,310 --> 01:26:11,580 body right it's just not good for you we 2196 01:26:16,250 --> 01:26:13,320 know that already there's already been 2197 01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:16,260 moves towards that in in medicine 2198 01:26:20,030 --> 01:26:18,420 I'm saying this happens in much greater 2199 01:26:21,410 --> 01:26:20,040 degrees than we are aware yet and that 2200 01:26:23,390 --> 01:26:21,420 are certainly that our society is 2201 01:26:25,970 --> 01:26:23,400 willing to recognize the entire 2202 01:26:27,410 --> 01:26:25,980 pharmaceutical industry of course is all 2203 01:26:29,570 --> 01:26:27,420 about 2204 01:26:31,310 --> 01:26:29,580 producing chemicals mixing chemicals 2205 01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:31,320 together to put them into bodies that 2206 01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:33,120 are going to fix things on a chemical 2207 01:26:36,910 --> 01:26:35,760 level again that's a very 2208 01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:36,920 um 2209 01:26:41,810 --> 01:26:39,600 reductionistic and partial way of 2210 01:26:44,930 --> 01:26:41,820 looking at the actual process of what 2211 01:26:46,970 --> 01:26:44,940 creates these physical manifestations 2212 01:26:48,649 --> 01:26:46,980 and ultimately we want to get to the 2213 01:26:51,350 --> 01:26:48,659 point where we have more awareness of 2214 01:26:53,209 --> 01:26:51,360 all of the the factors that play a role 2215 01:26:55,310 --> 01:26:53,219 in that so that we have more of a 2216 01:26:56,510 --> 01:26:55,320 holistic way of actually working with 2217 01:26:58,790 --> 01:26:56,520 the body 2218 01:27:02,689 --> 01:26:58,800 right I was about to say there's this uh 2219 01:27:05,209 --> 01:27:02,699 need for harmony between those sides the 2220 01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:05,219 the technological side and the and the 2221 01:27:11,090 --> 01:27:08,400 deeper understanding of how we are 2222 01:27:12,530 --> 01:27:11,100 connected to reality 2223 01:27:14,330 --> 01:27:12,540 um you know if we can bring those two 2224 01:27:16,490 --> 01:27:14,340 into harmony then that's a much better 2225 01:27:18,050 --> 01:27:16,500 State than the opposite and quite 2226 01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:18,060 frankly if we're always interacting with 2227 01:27:23,629 --> 01:27:20,880 other uh intelligences in some form or 2228 01:27:26,689 --> 01:27:23,639 fashion or if if actions that we take in 2229 01:27:29,810 --> 01:27:26,699 our world are World quote unquote uh can 2230 01:27:31,790 --> 01:27:29,820 can Ripple into theirs uh we certainly 2231 01:27:34,189 --> 01:27:31,800 can understand why if we're starting to 2232 01:27:38,270 --> 01:27:34,199 play with technology that far exceeds 2233 01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:38,280 our our spiritual grasp if you will that 2234 01:27:43,370 --> 01:27:41,040 they may take strong notice of that and 2235 01:27:44,990 --> 01:27:43,380 uh and try to you know take some counter 2236 01:27:46,970 --> 01:27:45,000 measures to to get us back on a 2237 01:27:49,850 --> 01:27:46,980 different track 2238 01:27:51,410 --> 01:27:49,860 yeah it's one thing when the um the the 2239 01:27:52,970 --> 01:27:51,420 brothers and sisters at one level are 2240 01:27:55,790 --> 01:27:52,980 using sticks and stones but when they 2241 01:27:57,890 --> 01:27:55,800 start you know trying to split the atom 2242 01:27:59,930 --> 01:27:57,900 um even though again it's only a partial 2243 01:28:01,790 --> 01:27:59,940 aspect of the total reality which is a 2244 01:28:04,370 --> 01:28:01,800 field of meditation it's a pretty big 2245 01:28:07,250 --> 01:28:04,380 impact on the Dreamscape so 2246 01:28:09,649 --> 01:28:07,260 um then we're getting into we maybe even 2247 01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:09,659 actually interpenetrating Dreamscapes 2248 01:28:13,910 --> 01:28:11,760 with that kind of level of Destruction 2249 01:28:15,350 --> 01:28:13,920 and that's kind of what they've they've 2250 01:28:16,910 --> 01:28:15,360 spoken to us that's what they've said to 2251 01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:16,920 experiencers is that you don't 2252 01:28:19,970 --> 01:28:18,960 understand the nature of reality you 2253 01:28:22,550 --> 01:28:19,980 don't understand how there's actually 2254 01:28:23,689 --> 01:28:22,560 interpenetrating realities and that some 2255 01:28:26,209 --> 01:28:23,699 of these things you're doing at this 2256 01:28:29,390 --> 01:28:26,219 level actually have an impact across 2257 01:28:31,850 --> 01:28:29,400 these um these Borders or these barriers 2258 01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:31,860 between these different uh biomes even 2259 01:28:36,290 --> 01:28:33,600 if they're ultimately mentation biomes 2260 01:28:38,689 --> 01:28:36,300 so absolutely and the other thing I 2261 01:28:41,270 --> 01:28:38,699 would actually quickly add too is that 2262 01:28:43,370 --> 01:28:41,280 we talked about disease and health and 2263 01:28:45,890 --> 01:28:43,380 medicine and all that kind of thing we 2264 01:28:47,629 --> 01:28:45,900 also have to remember that a big part of 2265 01:28:50,510 --> 01:28:47,639 the experience for Testimony around this 2266 01:28:53,050 --> 01:28:50,520 phenomenon is this sense of like Soul 2267 01:28:56,149 --> 01:28:53,060 contracts right people coming in 2268 01:28:58,370 --> 01:28:56,159 sometimes having agreed to have certain 2269 01:29:01,010 --> 01:28:58,380 things happening to them physiologically 2270 01:29:03,470 --> 01:29:01,020 because again in the terms of of the raw 2271 01:29:06,169 --> 01:29:03,480 material that creates the Catalyst the 2272 01:29:08,570 --> 01:29:06,179 resistance which allows us to grow our 2273 01:29:11,030 --> 01:29:08,580 souls which you can think of as the sort 2274 01:29:13,250 --> 01:29:11,040 of enduring energetic imprint behind 2275 01:29:14,870 --> 01:29:13,260 each of our iterations 2276 01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:14,880 and when you think about the Lessons 2277 01:29:19,310 --> 01:29:17,400 Learned there just like the lessons of a 2278 01:29:21,169 --> 01:29:19,320 civilization learning about not going to 2279 01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:21,179 war with each other 2280 01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,520 um that is actually more important than 2281 01:29:27,530 --> 01:29:25,679 any individual iteration so even when 2282 01:29:30,169 --> 01:29:27,540 someone gets sick I'm not saying that's 2283 01:29:33,169 --> 01:29:30,179 fun of course it's not and you know when 2284 01:29:35,450 --> 01:29:33,179 someone dies even less fun but we have 2285 01:29:37,910 --> 01:29:35,460 to remember I think to really be able to 2286 01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,920 move about the world in a way that 2287 01:29:42,590 --> 01:29:39,840 doesn't make us feel completely 2288 01:29:45,229 --> 01:29:42,600 paralyzed in fear we have to recognize 2289 01:29:47,570 --> 01:29:45,239 that there are bigger moves in play in 2290 01:29:49,570 --> 01:29:47,580 Consciousness ultimately and that even 2291 01:29:52,250 --> 01:29:49,580 the things that happen in this life 2292 01:29:54,890 --> 01:29:52,260 sometimes were set up previous to this 2293 01:29:57,169 --> 01:29:54,900 because ultimately they play a role in 2294 01:29:59,450 --> 01:29:57,179 our Evolution as these energetic 2295 01:30:01,790 --> 01:29:59,460 signatures that carry across lifetimes 2296 01:30:03,410 --> 01:30:01,800 and and that's ultimately more important 2297 01:30:06,050 --> 01:30:03,420 than anything that happens in any 2298 01:30:07,669 --> 01:30:06,060 individual lifetime so this just again 2299 01:30:09,830 --> 01:30:07,679 brings us back to that point I often 2300 01:30:12,410 --> 01:30:09,840 make and we've discussed before where 2301 01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:12,420 the key I think to to living in a way 2302 01:30:17,450 --> 01:30:14,639 that feels holistic and healthy and 2303 01:30:20,209 --> 01:30:17,460 vibrant is to be able to toggle between 2304 01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:20,219 the relative and the absolute yes we do 2305 01:30:23,990 --> 01:30:21,840 want to care about what happens to each 2306 01:30:26,270 --> 01:30:24,000 other in this iteration we should do the 2307 01:30:28,430 --> 01:30:26,280 best we can in this iteration 2308 01:30:30,890 --> 01:30:28,440 but we should also recognize and take 2309 01:30:33,229 --> 01:30:30,900 comfort in the fact that in an absolute 2310 01:30:36,110 --> 01:30:33,239 sense nothing that exists can ultimately 2311 01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:36,120 ultimately be destroyed so we are 2312 01:30:40,610 --> 01:30:39,120 Eternal beings having a temporary finite 2313 01:30:42,770 --> 01:30:40,620 experience that's ultimately what that 2314 01:30:43,790 --> 01:30:42,780 is we will wake up from the stream in 2315 01:30:45,890 --> 01:30:43,800 another dream 2316 01:30:48,290 --> 01:30:45,900 knowing that allows us to move forward 2317 01:30:51,770 --> 01:30:48,300 in a way that's compassionate and 2318 01:30:56,390 --> 01:30:54,830 excellent well this episode for me 2319 01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:56,400 accomplished what I wanted to do and 2320 01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:57,600 we've been like you said we've been 2321 01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:00,239 talking about it for a long time uh I 2322 01:31:04,610 --> 01:31:02,400 really wanted to see if we could start 2323 01:31:06,590 --> 01:31:04,620 at the ground level and work our way up 2324 01:31:08,930 --> 01:31:06,600 and I know there are many other areas 2325 01:31:11,570 --> 01:31:08,940 that we haven't touched on in detail so 2326 01:31:14,270 --> 01:31:11,580 we've got more things to talk about that 2327 01:31:16,010 --> 01:31:14,280 that work within this model uh in the 2328 01:31:18,649 --> 01:31:16,020 future I look forward to those 2329 01:31:20,570 --> 01:31:18,659 conversations so thanks for going along 2330 01:31:22,490 --> 01:31:20,580 with me on this experiment uh I think it 2331 01:31:25,250 --> 01:31:22,500 was really strong and a good way to 2332 01:31:27,530 --> 01:31:25,260 start the the new year uh a year that 2333 01:31:29,870 --> 01:31:27,540 has already uh bringing with it some 2334 01:31:32,930 --> 01:31:29,880 interesting developments uh at least in 2335 01:31:35,270 --> 01:31:32,940 the in the UAP space which we had a a 2336 01:31:38,030 --> 01:31:35,280 revelation about that today then the UAP 2337 01:31:39,350 --> 01:31:38,040 report that was I guess what we thought 2338 01:31:41,990 --> 01:31:39,360 it might be which wasn't all that much 2339 01:31:45,470 --> 01:31:42,000 uh but there's it still points to there 2340 01:31:46,790 --> 01:31:45,480 is a there worth taking a look at and I 2341 01:31:50,149 --> 01:31:46,800 know we'll have a chance to talk about 2342 01:31:51,530 --> 01:31:50,159 that some in the episodes ahead yeah go 2343 01:31:53,570 --> 01:31:51,540 ahead you have one more form I'm just 2344 01:31:56,090 --> 01:31:53,580 going to say before we sign off with uh 2345 01:31:58,970 --> 01:31:56,100 with uh you know Nathan's Famous 2346 01:32:00,290 --> 01:31:58,980 benediction uh let me just say that if 2347 01:32:02,090 --> 01:32:00,300 you out there in the audience have 2348 01:32:03,290 --> 01:32:02,100 questions that uh that arise for you 2349 01:32:05,570 --> 01:32:03,300 when you hear about all this material 2350 01:32:08,090 --> 01:32:05,580 again like Nathan said please feel free 2351 01:32:10,550 --> 01:32:08,100 to reach out a message us send emails 2352 01:32:13,430 --> 01:32:10,560 whatever you want to do uh send in your 2353 01:32:15,709 --> 01:32:13,440 questions send in your feelings about 2354 01:32:17,510 --> 01:32:15,719 this kind of material and we will use 2355 01:32:20,090 --> 01:32:17,520 that um to at some point in the future 2356 01:32:21,649 --> 01:32:20,100 maybe do an episode all about 2357 01:32:25,189 --> 01:32:21,659 um audience questions and interact with 2358 01:32:28,430 --> 01:32:25,199 that so uh please uh engage with us 2359 01:32:30,350 --> 01:32:28,440 absolutely yeah that's uh we we talk 2360 01:32:32,330 --> 01:32:30,360 about those comments all the time so 2361 01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:32,340 everything that you guys uh share with 2362 01:32:37,129 --> 01:32:35,280 us we we go over and and often lead to 2363 01:32:38,870 --> 01:32:37,139 some really interesting conversation so 2364 01:32:40,910 --> 01:32:38,880 uh looking forward to hear what folks 2365 01:32:43,250 --> 01:32:40,920 have to say uh thanks everybody for 2366 01:32:44,629 --> 01:32:43,260 joining us uh on this episode and uh 2367 01:32:47,270 --> 01:32:44,639 we'll catch you again in a couple weeks 2368 01:32:48,590 --> 01:32:47,280 uh and with that said we will close as 2369 01:32:50,770 --> 01:32:48,600 we often do 2370 01:32:53,390 --> 01:32:50,780 with May the quality of our questions 2371 01:32:56,750 --> 01:32:53,400 shaped by a desire for understanding 2372 01:32:58,490 --> 01:32:56,760 enhance our journey of Discovery and may 2373 01:33:01,010 --> 01:32:58,500 our travels broaden the sphere of our 2374 01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:01,020 Consciousness reminding us that new 2375 01:33:06,770 --> 01:33:03,920 discoveries beget New Horizons as always 2376 01:33:11,410 --> 01:33:06,780 Adventure awaits we'll see you next time 2377 01:33:15,210 --> 01:33:13,620 [Music] 2378 01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:15,220 [Laughter]